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Whilst in Calgary Military Museum yesterday stumbled upon these........ thought I'd share the pics, there was a lovely cutaway Lewis gun but the reflection of the glass case never did justice for the pics but these weren't too bad.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../jGinCzX-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wHWMNR6-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../BAE6U2S-1.jpg
Geoff, you are spoiling us mate! Lovely examples, that's set my week up the right way...
Geoff,
Thats an early one with wood. The one I had my hands on was a green fluted legs that made up the stock and grip when uppermost. I'll see if I can take some shots
Gil, those are our weapons...that's how we carried them from beginning to end. That's standard. Later pattern wood too, the early had vent holes. The serial number on the C2 is interesting, not an issue number at all and the BBC is welded in place. This must have been a seizure from somewhere and given to the museum or the Regiments. It has an SMG sling on it too by the looks... Been a few years since I've been there myself...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
That's probably the metric Fal Gil, with the legs folding up into the metal forend recess's, G1, STG58 etc
These two are inch pattern, the Canadian Arsenals C2A1 LMG and a C1A1.
Guessing they have both lost a fight with a Mig welder Geoff?
Still, lovely examples and I would happily give a kidney to have either in my Inch pattern collection!
John/Geoff,
Here you go wrong mag but in my hands 10 minutes ago:
Looks in good order Gil, definitely a pre 88 Semi auto mate, the inch pattern (Semi only) safety was a standard mod back then on civvy Fals.
The saw cut through the BC is a little overboard!
I take it John it would have had a 30 round mag not the 20 one it has there??
Standard Fal 20 rd mag I think Gil.
Roger that
"...lost a fight with a Mig welder..." Everything in every CF museum is welded shut or otherwise 100% deactivated. Knew a guy who loaned the Borden museum a fully operational .40mm Bofors gun, they promptly welded shut. never did find out how it worked out, but he was getting ready to sue 'em.
The C2 used any FAL mag. Supposed to be one of it's 'charms'. Don't recall ever seeing anything but a 20 though. PBI units maybe.
That's a nice G1 Gil.
Another one I had was serial 30615C, close to that one and the BC was cut just the same way. Looks like it's a gun shop somewhere, but unless it gets really butchered to the latest EU spec I guess it's not going to be going anywhere......
Which one Gil, the C2 has a Canadian 30...do you mean the one you have...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Yes the one I had in my hands is a 20, be nice to see it with a 30 rd mag though, justa point of view. Nice piece.
Yours takes metric mags though? Did they even make a 30 rd metric mag?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
There are 30rd metric mags around. I've got one kicking around at home somewhere. However I believe most that you find came from South Africa. They're straight (not curved) 30 rounders and were actually designed for the SA 7.62 converted Brens, not the FAL but as they have the front metric "beak" rather than the inch pattern rectangular "tab", they're interchangeable with FALs and 20rd mags.
There's the heavy barrel FN FALO/FAP too as used by the Israelis and Argentinians but I believe they utilised 20rd mags as standard.
Jim,
No its not for sale just happened to be on a gunshop wall, but looked really new.
I think quite a few of those G1's saw very little use Gil.
I've seen a number of them over the years in similar fresh condition.
I've always asumed they (the batch brought into the UK in the early 1980's for civilian sale) were West German War Reserve pieces that spent most of there rather brief active service in store.
When you find it perhaps you could trot it out for us...never seen a metric 30...Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedan
The South Africans used and made 20 round magazines with the FN locking lug for their 7.62 converted Brens.
It wasn't until the weapons found there way to Rhodesia that larger capacity magazines were made and converted.Pic attached.
The UK L4A1 7.62 Bren conversion also used the FN locking lug on a 28 round magazine.
Bottom one, very nice. Yes, the others make sense too. The sort of thing troops have done by the unit welder.
The serial appears to be 202WD #2. My guess is it would be either assembled or deactivated at 202 workshop for issue to the museum. The sling looks too wide for a SMG...looks more like someone stuck a bren clip on the end of a FN sling.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
That is not true, and contrary to the CF museum manual which states that small arms shall not be altered. I work for a CF museum, and while some sacrilege has been performed on some of the firearms, for the most part, our weapons are unaltered. I did see an anomoly to this when we recently ordered another SMG C1 and received a solidly welded up example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
A few years ago we got in a C1 105mm howitzer. It went through base maintenance first for pre-issue checks, and they started welding it up. Our artifacts manager went over with the manual and they had to un-do their welds. When it comes to the larger stuff, it can be issued as an artifact or as a monument. Artifact is un-altered, monument has every moving part including the wheel nuts welded in place.
Saw plenty of 30 round magazines in service for the C2. Not uncommon at all.
Thanks for the info, I believe museums open to the general public here in the UK have to deactivate all Arms to the the current standard.
Even trophy firearms in various bases have to be deactivated to EU standard and be certificated. Only official restricted collections, like the Royal Armouries, Warminster etc, can have live firearms with the accompanying and nessasary vetting and security measures for anyone wishing access.
John,
Certainly true at our museum, everything deactivated and certificated to the current specs.;)
I thought museums had a special exemption from this deact stuff in law along with their museum status regarding firearms generally?
Peter,
Sadly not, they still have to be "belt and braces" certificated in case of theft
Ridiculous Gil, talk about a nanny state. Does this mean you will need to rework and re certificate your museum inventory at considerable expense?
John,
Thats the heart break, and why I am the fundraising Trustee. The costs of running a museum inside the Imperial War Museum wire, are not cheap.
Everything has to go through their cleaning and rendering service to ensure there is no cross contamination, especially where uniforms and clothing are concerned, so yes its a non stop money pit unfortunately.
To see some of the weapons seized in yesteryear by PARA Operations deativated to this level is criminal. They are basically now just show pieces behind glass. It doesn't look much from this photo, but it is a 360 degree way of looking at a large number of weapons............cleaning the inside of the glass is a real pain which we did a few weeks ago now.
Its crazy Gil, it must be one hell of a struggle in this day and age.
Working within the layers of ever more complex and expensive legislation..
John,
Absolutely right, and one reason why, when this book SNIPERS DOWN SOUTH is finished, every penny will go to our Parachute Regiment Museum.
I am also working other major fundraising events alongside that.
Incidently on page 100 of this A4 hard backed book, full of unheard of stories from the snipers themselves in all the Regiments who went south to reclaim the Falkland Islands in 1982!