A few questions about my recently purchased Lee Enfield

Hello.

I have recently purchased a Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk I rifle. Please, bear with me. It is my first rifle and I might ask questions which may be common knowledge among rifle entusiasts.
Anyway, I have a few questions about my Lee Enfield. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

The first question: Serial Numbers and markings.
I believe I read somewhere that you can figure out where your rifle is from, when it was made and so on, with the help of its serial numbers.

My serial number starts with W 2XXXXX AO and a mark on the reciever which says 6KB. What does it mean?

The Second question: The Barrel
When the bolt is not connected to the barrel in the reciever, then it seems that I can turn/twist the entire barrel a few turns.
Is it suppose to do that or is it a free floating barrel?

When the bolt is connected to the barrel, I can still twist it a little bit to the right. Should I twist it all the way to the left?

The Third question: The Book for Lee Enfield
I have been recommended to buy "The Lee-Enfield by Ian Skennerton", but is it the best book to buy?

Best regards - Zigge

The barrel should not be able to turn at all and it will require a gunsmith to repair this. Can you get your money back?

Photos please. Showing what you are saying.

Welcome to the forum:thup:

Some titles from my collection ~ Skennertons latest and last one in Pic # 1 and Strattons Pic # 2 on the No.4/ No.5 is all you will need on the 303 Lee Enfields unless you want to get others on the subject these two titles are it although E B Reynolds book is great but a very expensive one to acquire good luck and no you should not be able to turn the barrel at all do not shoot it before you take it to a gunsmith and one who is familiar with the type of rifle not a custom gun shop either as they probably would not know what they were looking at!

Skennerton's books is the go-to place for all the information any starting collector could ever want.

Also yeah your barrel should not budge an inch with your bare hands, and for future reference for you: Free Floating is when the barrel (Screwed properly up to the reciever) does not touch any part of the stock all the way from the reciever to the muzzle. Most Lee-Enfields were BEDDED, which is the opposite of free-floating: The barrel rested snuggly in the stock and was held in place at the muzzle, and, for the No1 MIII, also a little steel band around the barrel. Testing free-floating, bedding, and all that you can find a fair bit of in here, or you could start another thread specifically about your rifle.

Best of luck with it.

the LEE ENFIELD story book is really good, managed to get a copy the other day for £50

and your Enfield sounds knackered

Hello Zigge and welcome to the forum.
As you state this is your first rifle; not just your first Enfield. I am wondering if you've got mixed up with translating the parts. (I assume that english is not your first language!)
I ask this because it's almost unheard of for a barrel to come loose if it's been properly fitted, and the bolt being fitted would not have any effect on the tightness of the barrel as far as I can see.
Definitely get the rifle checked properly by someone qualified. failing that; post photos of the problems you think you have, or a short video would help a lot.

Thank you all for welcoming me to the forum, for all of your replies and your book recommendations, I appreciate it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve H. in N.Y.

The barrel should not be able to turn at all and it will require a gunsmith to repair this. Can you get your money back?

---

That's a shame to hear. Unfortunately no, I can't get my money back.
I bought it on a gun auction, there are no refunds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

and no you should not be able to turn the barrel at all do not shoot it before you take it to a gunsmith and one who is familiar with the type of rifle not a custom gun shop either as they probably would not know what they were looking at!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 30Three

As you state this is your first rifle; not just your first Enfield. I am wondering if you've got mixed up with translating the parts. (I assume that english is not your first language!)
I ask this because it's almost unheard of for a barrel to come loose if it's been properly fitted, and the bolt being fitted would not have any effect on the tightness of the barrel as far as I can see.
Definitely get the rifle checked properly by someone qualified. failing that; post photos of the problems you think you have, or a short video would help a lot.

---

Yeah, you assumed right. English is not my native language, but I will do, to the best of my ability, try to explain my problem and the parts of the rifle.

Here are some pictures of the weapon and the problem.

The bolt assembly is in the reciever, I can twist the barrel a little bit.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Ky6wx7A-1.jpg

The bolt assembly is no longer in the reciever, I can twist the barrel entirely.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZQtyBVB-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philb

and your Enfield sounds knackered

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Yeah, I think so, too.

Can anyone recommend a good lee enfield gunsmith within Europe which I can send my rifle to? I have a strong feeling that there are no Lee Enfield gunsmiths in the scandinavian countries.

Thank you all for welcoming me to the forum, for all of your replies and the book recommendations, I appreciate it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve H. in N.Y.

The barrel should not be able to turn at all and it will require a gunsmith to repair this. Can you get your money back?

---

That's a shame to hear. Unfortunately no, I can't my money back.
I bought the rifle on a gun auction, there are no refunds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

and no you should not be able to turn the barrel at all do not shoot it before you take it to a gunsmith and one who is familiar with the type of rifle not a custom gun shop either as they probably would not know what they were looking at!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 30Three

Hello Zigge and welcome to the forum.
As you state this is your first rifle; not just your first Enfield. I am wondering if you've got mixed up with translating the parts. (I assume that english is not your first language!)
I ask this because it's almost unheard of for a barrel to come loose if it's been properly fitted, and the bolt being fitted would not have any effect on the tightness of the barrel as far as I can see.
Definitely get the rifle checked properly by someone qualified. failing that; post photos of the problems you think you have, or a short video would help a lot.

---

Yeah, you assumed right. English is not my native langauge, but I will do, to the best of my ability, to try to explain the parts of the rifle and the problem for you.

Here are a few pictures of the rifle and my problem.

The bolt assembly is in the recieve, I can twist the barrel a little.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Ky6wx7A-1.jpg

The bolt assembly is no longer in the recieve, I can twist the barrel entirely.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZQtyBVB-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philb

and your Enfield sounds knackered

---

Yeah, I think so too....

Can anyone recommend me a good Lee Enfield gunsmith within Europe which I can send my rifle to?
I have a strong feeling that there are no Lee Enfield gunsmiths in the Scandinavian countries. Thank you!

Thank you all for welcoming me to the forum, for all of your replies and the book recommendations, I appreciate it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve H. in N.Y.

The barrel should not be able to turn at all and it will require a gunsmith to repair this. Can you get your money back?

---

That's a shame to hear. Unfortunately no, I can't get my money back.
I bought the rifle on a gun auction, there are no refunds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

and no you should not be able to turn the barrel at all do not shoot it before you take it to a gunsmith and one who is familiar with the type of rifle not a custom gun shop either as they probably would not know what they were looking at!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 30Three

Hello Zigge and welcome to the forum.
As you state this is your first rifle; not just your first Enfield. I am wondering if you've got mixed up with translating the parts. (I assume that english is not your first language!)
I ask this because it's almost unheard of for a barrel to come loose if it's been properly fitted, and the bolt being fitted would not have any effect on the tightness of the barrel as far as I can see.
Definitely get the rifle checked properly by someone qualified. failing that; post photos of the problems you think you have, or a short video would help a lot.

---

Yeah, you assumed right. English is not my native langauge, but I will do, to the best of my ability, to try to explain the parts of the rifle and the problem for you.

Here are a few pictures of the rifle and my problem.

The bolt assembly is in the recieve, I can twist the barrel a little.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Ky6wx7A-1.jpg

The bolt assembly is no longer in the recieve, I can twist the barrel entirely.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZQtyBVB-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philb

and your Enfield sounds knackered

---

Yeah, I think so too.... It seems that the barrel requires tightening and head spacing. If I can tighten the barrel by hand so that it is in the 12 o’clock position, then I need a new barrel washer.
There is a special washer between the barrel and the receiver. This washer allows me to correctly torque the barrel and at the same time achieve the correct headspace.

The question is: What is the name of the washer and where can I find it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zigge

The question is: What is the name of the washer and where can I find it?

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There was no washer. The barrel screws in tight as manufactured.

Ummnnnn, you had better remove the forend from the rifle.

You should NOT be able to turn the barrel (even if loose in the receiver) with the fore-end attached.

This is an Ad Vebatim of an article Peter Laidler wrote I suggest you read it 4-5 times to understand what your getting yourself into if you want to try a back yard it, its better & safer if someone qualified and experienced with these rifles "Breehes Up" that barrel if it can be as we meaning you have no idea of the rifles history are there any marks like DP on it or ZF or ZBER before you go any further.

Here is the article by Peter L who knows these things better than anyone......

I wonder how many of you read the thread on our sister Enfield collectors milsurp site regarding take-off barrels and the problems re-indexing them when used in another rifle afterwards. This is nothing new, not even with NEW barrels, especially ‘new’ old 40’s barrels that were still in the system until a few years ago. And dare I say it, but Savage spare barrels seemed to be the worst offenders.

At our big field and base workshops it wasn’t such a problem because we’d usually have a long racks of barrels, both new and almost new that we could use until we’d get one with the correct ‘hand-tight’ underturn that we could select for final fitting. Oh, yes……, before I forget, we always graded our barrels in quarters of life. If a barrel was in its first quarter of life then it’d be almost as new and so on to a last quarter of life where it was probably shot out. But shot out didn’t mean that it was duff or inaccurate either. Anyway, I digress………….. But don’t get the impression that it was just barrels where the breeching up threads were slightly out of index. It was the rifle bodies too. And if you got a rifle where the breeching up thread was ‘late’ (that is, commenced even a minute of angle late), then getting a barrel that would underturn was difficult. So I’ll take you through what could and would happen.

Sniper rifles were the worst because they were always at a premium and the Command AIA, (the Assistant Inspector of Armaments) would always specify new barrels for these but that was easy to say but sometimes difficult in practice. So where a new barrel couldn’t be found with the correct underturn, the breeching-up face of the body would be smoother-off with a smooth file, just a gnats knacker or as you wild antipodeans or colonial savages say, a RCH so that a datum surface was available. Then the best-fit barrel would be fitted until it read the correct underturn THEN a reading would be ascertained as to the thickness of material required to get the correct underturn. Lets say that in our case, it was .028”. That’s twenty eight thousandths of an inch.

Someone suggested that his gunsmith will insert a .028” steel shim and that’s the answer. Others have suggested that it’d be a good idea to gently swage the shoulder of the breeching-up face of the barrel, sufficient to take up the slack. DO NOT USE THESE METHODS. THEY ARE XXXX POOR ENGINEERING PRACTICE and verging on the best bubba practice you will ever have the privilege of seeing. Have you digested that?

This is what you do. Knowing that your barrel needs .028” underturn, get yourself a proper breeching up washer made. I’m not going to teach you or your machinist pal how to suck eggs but if you need .028”, then get the breeching washer made .128” THEN machine .100” off the breeching up face of the barrel (no, the breeching UP face, not the BREECH face silly…..). But I’ll let you into a secret. At our large Base workshop in Singapore, we were running major overhaul programmes of everything including L1A1 rifles. Then, someone noticed that the tough, hard, readily available and exact diameter required L1A1 breeching up washers were between about .055” and .070” thick. Now, we’d just take the barrel to the little Chinese fitter/turner (he had a big pile of breeching up washers in his tray anyway) and say .”028” please Lim” and he’d mount the barrel and machine away .032” from the breeching up face. You’d walk back to the Armourers shop, past Steve’s Magnolia ice-cream van where you’d spend the next half an hour discussing politics or the Viet-nam situation or the new flower arrangement in the church with the rest of the blokes……..Oh, I’ve gone off at a tangent again…… Anyway, armed with the new barrel with .032” machined off the breeching up face PLUS a new .060” L1A1 breeching up washer you’d know that .060” - .032” was .028” which is JUST the underturn we need to tighten the barrel to make it PERFECT on the flat-plate we used to ensure that it was perfectly tight, upright and square.

Is that simple enough? It might be a tad more thoughtful that a steel shim or a good battering around the barrel flange that won’t last twenty minutes but it’s how the pro’s do it.

There are a few afterthoughts too. I’m telling you this so that when YOU need to do the job, then YOU tell your gunsmith how its done properly. And go and buy a selection of L1A1 breeching up washers now, while they’re available. When a badly shot-out/rusty bore No4T Lyman TP rifle was recovered recently, it too overturned by as much as it should have underturned, even with a new barrel. Our main workshops were at their wits end as there were only a few barrels from which to select. So what method do you think THEY utilized? Yep, got it in one. And it shoots as sweetly and accurately as it ever did. And as for us young 20 year old lads discussing politics, Vietnam or Flower arranging in 60’s Singapore…………, then if they did, I wasn’t part of the discussion!

ARE YOU ON THE SQUARE? A guide to breeching up!

ON THE SQUARE
As a result of a request from forumers, I’m going to tell you how WE, the REME Armourers breeched up No4 and 5 rifles. And while we’re at it, this is the principle of how we did L1A1’s too.

I must stress that we were all taught the correct method of breeching up but to be honest, and I’m going to be simple now, you were relying on a parallel gauge, one end of which crossed the flat we call the KNOX FORM. And as you are well aware, while it is meant to be a datum surface and therefore accurate, in MOST cases so far as I was aware, it simply wasn’t! What I’m going to tell you ignores the relationship of the knox form with this that and the other and relies on good, sound, honest, common sense!

You have all (hopefully) read the previously published article about how we would select a barrel from a large rack of ‘em, that gave us about 18 degrees or so of underturn. If it was, say, 25 degrees, then you simply skim a gnats knacker or a RCH from the breeching up face. If it’s, say only 10 degrees, then you insert a breeching up washer to suit. Has all that stuff been read and digested?

Someone asked a couple of questions/comments about the breeching up washers after I said that we used the plentiful L1A1 washers. And simply put, the L1A1 washers are a good fit and do the job perfectly. As for the quality, well, simply put, they might not be HARD, as in mechanical engineering terms but they are TOUGH and that’s what counts in this application.

When you have breeched up your barrel so that it LOOKS pretty-well square, I want you to select a solid (as in not the fabricated type) foresight protector with straight and undamaged sides and secure it to the foresight block band When the screw it tightened up, this foresight protector should grip the block band each side. In other words, even when the screw is loosened a tad, you should not be able to rotate the protector….., not even a little bit. It must slide and sit on the foresight block band tightly.

Now you probably won’t have a hundred or so foresight protectors to try before you get one that’s perfect. You won’t need that many, and most probably, the first or second you try will do. If you can’t find one, then just make sure that before you tighten yours up, then it is sat EXACTLY equidistant/centrally astride the block band. Do you understand this. It is important.

As a matter of interest, we had an exact protector that was painted BFA yellow (that’s Blank Firing Adaptor paint colour …..) that stayed with the breeching up kit together with an extended screw with an allen-key end for ease of use but I digress…...

Now, you insert a 4” long or so .144” diameter or 9 SWG (Standard Wire Gauge) ground steel bar, through the backsight axis pin hole and rest this across two matched vee blocks that are sat on a surface plate at a height that allows the rifle to lay parallel to the surface plate or something else that is 36” or so long and absolutely FLAT. We had a sheet of plate glass that did the job as well as anything. Now, allow the foresight protectors to touch the glass. Now, gently rock the barrel and the body between the axis pin and the protectors. It SHOULD sit absolutely square, supported between the axis of the backsight axis pin and the square of the foresight protectors.

If it’s not EXACTLY square and rock free, then just tighten or undo the barrel a further gnats knacker until it is ‘no-rock’ perfect. And that is it! If we were 2nd Class Craftsmen, we’d ask a 1st class Armourer to sign off the work but to be honest, after a couple of times, it was like riding a bike

Now you have a backsight and a foresight that are both exactly upright and square to each other, regardless of what the parallel gauge or alignment lines say……….., and that’s really all that’s needed. Oh yes, and don’t talk to me about alignment bars/lines either. If you have ever breeched up Thompson guns or SA80 rifles, then you soon learn to ignore them and do it properly. If you have any fears that the extractor slot might not align with the extractor then forget it because there is ample width to cater for it.

The same idea applied to L1A1 rifles except this time, the vee block was positioned inside the body, resting on the machined inner surface. Same with No5 rifles too but this time, because we couldn’t be sure that the splayed foresight protector ‘ears’ were both splayed exactly, then a simple square was cramped to the parallel part of the upright that really needs no further explanation.

Now here’s something that you didn’t know or thought about. If you have a rifle that won’t zero until the foresight it well over to the left or right, and I’ve seen plenty of then too….., now is the time to consider whether the barrel is slightly over or under breeched. Just a slight amount will upset the balance of the foresight block…………..

Loose barrel shouldn't turn when fitted into fore-end. Er........ Why not? Thread 10 above