I thought I posted this already but I guess it didn't take...
So I stumbled across a Fazakerly built Sniper for sale for an amazing price and I wanted to get a serial number check from those who know better...Serial # X33349.
Thanks.
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I thought I posted this already but I guess it didn't take...
So I stumbled across a Fazakerly built Sniper for sale for an amazing price and I wanted to get a serial number check from those who know better...Serial # X33349.
Thanks.
I'm pretty sure it's fake, but I wanted to run it by the more knowledgeable. Some pics...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ber__640-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...20Rifle2-1.jpg
http://http://i1100.photobucket.com/...issued%205.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...20Rifle2-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...20Rifle2-3.jpg
Is that all you have of the rifle amadeus as none of the real identifiers are readily seen like the left wrist, left side receiver, rear flats, top of the wrist, left side of the bracket and so on.
All we can see of the scope is a MKIII Waterproofed with Bloomed lenses, there is I think a barred out serial on the bracket but cannot make it out, plus 1 single stake mark on the front screw on the front pad.
Clear close ups assist the forumers allot to help you.
I'll see if I can't get someQuote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I'm not a betting man, but if I were, when we get more pix, I'd bet it'll turn out to be a genuine BSA 1945 4T.
Hopefully your guess will be right on the money Roger....
The serial number is certainly consistent with a BSA 45 rifle.
Blowing up the last 2 pictures, the receiver is BSA from the contour of the bottom shelf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
Yep, & the brunofixing looks typical late war H&H.
The serial number X33349 is for a 1945 rifle made at BSA Shirley as Roger Payne pointed out. The scope is of the same vintage and is a British made No.32 Mk.III (may be written as 3) with the last part hidden under the bracket clamp. The OS. 2039 A indicates definitively that it is a MK. III ( or Mk.3) and there are other clues to that effect.
It would help if you photograohed and described the markings.
What is the serial number marked on the left side of the scope bracket?
What is the number (if any) stamped into the wrist i.e. upper surface of the butt, just underneath or behind the cocking piece?
Is there a “T” stamped on the left flat side of the body by the ejector screw?
What markings are on the left side of the body socket? It is likely that they will read:
M47C
1945
X33349
TR
You should find “S51” stamped on the underside of the butt and “S” on the small square flat area of the body, just below the bolt head.
You should find the serial number of the rifle stamped lengthways on the underside of the fore-arm either as X33349 or as 33349.
Why do you think it is fake Amadeus76? Only because of the low price? If a seller, who bought it for a hundred dollars or so in the early 1970s has not looked around at current prices, you might indeed get it for a great price.
Chances are the scope is mismatched to the rifle as most were mismatched when sold by surplus dealers, but if the bracket SN matches the rifle and the scope SN matches the wrist, it is likely a treasure.
I found that I already had this BSA Shirley No. 4 Mk. I(T) rifle X33349 with scope 24364 listed in my No. 4 (T) research database from May 2017. It had the "TR" mark, "S51", "1945". I could not tell from the photos what other marks may or may not have been present. The most important one now would be if it has the "T" on the left flat side of the body.
It appeared to have the scope SN 24364 on the wrist but the photos then were not clear enough for me to be sure of that. It was with a No. 15 Mk. I wooden chest marked (T. LESS TELESCOPE) (correct model but likely from another rifle as was often the case and it had a canvas scope case No. 8 Mk. 2 with matching serial numbers to rifle and scope. Having the matching numbered scope case is very important to helping to verify the wartime conversion of the rifle to sniper configuration. Correct M1907 sling. Rifle was then described then as being mint. Appears to be matching numbers. Tentatively it looks like a good one and if the price is right ... it will be snapped up by someone.
Well if its a good price get down there pronto or contact them and grab it straight away if the the minister for war & finances disagrees then show what they are going for with the transit case & other goodies here in Aus that rifle would go for between $7.5 - $8.5K+ but as usual its up to the buyer just how much they want to part with.
Not being able to get a check on the cond of the barrel is the only pit, hopefully the turrets grease has not hardened up stiffening turret travel (I always take mine through their full travel occasionally) the rifle looks in very good condition if I was near it then it would be in the gunsafe tomorrow and I'd put up with the fall out later....Good luck.
Well done the gurus Roger & Seaforth & other members
It's a peach. If the bore's ok & the price is right buy it. You won't lose if you pay no more than the going rate. If you pay less you're in clover.
IT's about $1300 US... I'd be a fool to pass it up.
But honestly, the extremely low price is what made me hesitant. My other concern is it being a scam. Kinda along the lines of 'if it sounds too good to be true'...
Are you close enough to get the rifle in your hands that way a face to face, do a serial check on it to make sure its not hot property some gooses still flout the law but best check, or 50% deposit you get the rifle to inspect not to shoot if its no good then a full refund if its as it looks then pay the other 50%. Sometimes you do stumble across these things but as you say be cautious.....
Like my CBR 1100 XX Blackbird I recently brought 2003 build with 42300 klm on the clock thats only 2820 Klms per year for 15 years or 235 Klm's a month if it was ridden every month they are there...........though I have spent $1400 on it for tyres ($750 for 2), clutch/brake fluid & oil + filter change & plugs/air filter change as I had no service history on it I do now.
Do a google image search to see if the images have been taken from elsewhere on the net. (I tried but couldn't get it to work on my phone).
Also check if the name of the seller is who submitted it to seaforth72. If not how did he/she get it?
Well it's still for sale online, despite being put up on the 8th Feb. States he won't ship, so you'll need to be in the area or enjoy a drive. Personally for the price of $1250 I'd have been in the car 6 days ago to check it out in person. If he'd ship to the UK I'd take a punt sight unseen!
Good luck
That'd be the one... I'm in Korea till next week, but he is willing to ship. I've found that most of the time, despite what the ads say, people are still willing to ship if you ask and are willing to pay the cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy W
Out of curiosity, what's your feeling based on the ad?
the ad is too minimal to tell, get him to photograph the rifle next to a piece of paper with something random written on it, to prove he has it
Bottom line is, the sum total of the parts are worth more than he is charging. The scope alone is worth double.
No brainer if you ask me
Its the real deal, it has the TR and the S present from what I can see..........go for it.
I've asked for a verification photo just to protect myself... But after that I'm ready to send him my money.
Once you have that be quick, it will go otherwise!!!
I'm surprised it hasn't gone already
Verification photos to prove that the seller actually has the rifle today to sell is a good idea e.g. a photo of the rifle with a specific object or something like a newspaper or TV news screen showing today’s date. The asking price is way below its asking price last year, less than half. Try to check the seller’s reputation too as it might be a scam using copied photos. That has happened at least once that I know of for a No.4 Mk.I (T). I would only expect such a price from someone who bought the rifle about 1970 for $100 and is content with that asking price, or someone who is desperate for cash flow. The rifle is real I believe but is the seller? The old story “If it is too good to be true, it probably is not.” A face to face transaction would be ideal. Hopefully the rifle is not a stolen one.
I would agree absolutely with Colin. The rifle is a beaut, but at that price you need to be sure it's not a scam. The ideal would be a face to face transaction.
Amadeus,
Just leading on from Rogers comment, you started the thread, by saying you were pretty sure it was a fake.....what made you feel that? Could be a good indication in which way to proceed!!:surrender:
Just the low cost... I could see a reproduction being that low but find an authentic T surprising bordering on unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------
Since the ad says no shipping, I think it comes down to how many Lee Enfield collectors are in Wyoming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy W
Wow....that could be a bargain, if it checks out as being OK....:thup:
I just missed out on a bargain cheap mint L42 which would have have made a nice stablemate for my mint 4T :crying::crying:
So he's acting offended that I've requested a verification photo... That and his questionable english/grammer for someone from Wyoming is making me question the legitimacy.
It is a simple request really and not one that is hard to do by the seller takes 5 seconds to put the days paper next to it and happy snap it, your not implying anything its just verification for yourself with no malice or intent.
Exactly... I even apologized for asking. It seemed too good to be true from the beginning. Between the price asked, no city name given in the state he 'resides' in, poor grammar, doesn't supply specific photos requested (receiver, showing the markings), and now refuses to take a verification photo; I'm gonna go a head and call scam.
It's disappointing, but since I long ago gave up on the idea of getting my hands on a legitimate 'T' it's not a huge deal... If someone ever comes out with a good reproduction scope I'll probably sacrifice one of my No.4's to make a faux 'T' like I did for my 1903aFaux.
Just keep track of it with perhaps the details of where it was found (Web site) so others can be fore warned, if some one is selling something and they get a prospective buyer then a verification snap would not be an issue, also them not willing to supply a location also gets the ears pricked up.
Anyway all's well one will happen along one day for you bloke.
It was on Armslist... I'm gonna report them as a scam, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
Not accusing that seller of anything, but it might help to know the "sellers's" ID on Armslist in case anyone wishes to contact him about this rifle or is offered any other great items at less than half the value by this same seller. For an unknown reason about 300 records vanished overnight from my database leaving only about 1500.
:-(
The record on that rifle No. 4 MK. I (T) X33343 was one of them. As I recall it sold or at least was listed for sale at about $4,000 about a year ago. Being offered at $1,600 is a case of "too good to be true" in all likelihood.
I have been burned by a "seller" Gerald Gallipoli in Quebec on a web site for gun owners. Money was sent and suddenly all communications stopped and no rifle showed up. I informed the Royal Canadian Mounted Police who showed no interest in the latter until I told them that he had a copy of my firearms licence and might try to use it to fraudulently obtain firearms.
What was the outcome of that case Seaforth! Any resolution happen, but I guess you did your dosh.
The guys email is gregann.roy@aol.com
That pretty much confirms it as a scam. He implied he'd had it since the 60's...Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaforth72
It was actually for sale at $1250 US, not $1600
Cinders - in my case, no resolution unfortunately. It was NOT on the Canadian Gun Nutz (CGN) web site which I have been very happy with.
Glad you did not send money, yes it is a common scam I sort of guessed you were talking about another armslist gem from the beginning. Unfortunately wire fraud scammers now have caught on that some enfields are worth quite a bit of money, and therefore worth targeting people with. Basically any milsurp on armslist that is a rare variation is now a scam even if it seems to be priced appropriately, because they have caught on about suspicion over listings with insanely low prices.
AND, armslist won't even do anything about flagging the listings, much less the police. Personally it is very frustrating because we all collectively could hand the police every one of these scammers on a plate with a ready made case if they were willing to do the work or not require us to have sent our own money. Also, I doubt that any of these guys are up to only a few minor armslist scams which would make it even more satisfying and legally a slam dunk.
Unfortunately for all of us, basically everyone including the oldtimers has caught on to the prices of collectables even in out of the way places or hole in the shops that look they might not even have heard of the internet and knows what they are worth nowadays, so "they just might not know" is a lot more rare. Fortunately that might not extend to rare variations down to small markings or shops with attitudes about "those junky old enfields".
Seaforth, your database may now be the most useful tool for vetting these sales if they get past the reverse image auction search. like the above, if you see in your database that the SN is already in the hands of a collector who knows what they have there is no way they are going to let it go for fractions of pennies on the dollar to someone they don't even know.
There should almost be some sort of sticky about this for new collectors or those new to the forums of the American persuasion.
I to saw this. Had some communication with the guy and on first reply I was sure it was to good to be true . I hit the likely scam button right away.:nono:
AD-4NA - I was saving lots of photos for research but had stopped saving BSA No. 4 Mk.I (T) photos due to the great quantity. I am thinking I should save a couple of distinctive photos each time so if a rifle reappears on the market I can check to see if the seller is using a different seller’s photos. That would be a 99% indication that it was a scam. The other 1% would be honest sellers who don’t know how to use a camera. ;-)
That would be laudable if you chose to do it. They always seem to choose just a few of the beginning overall shots of the rifle from the real auction. Strangely enough usually I've had even more luck reverse searching the descriptions that they lifted literally verbatim without putting in any effort from somewhere else than the images.
Using both techniques should help weed out the scammers.