Tippmann Arms M4 22

Morning all, does anyone have an example of these apparently rather smart and impressive .22lr carbines.

By the various reports I have read they apparently have exceptional reliability and very acceptable accuracy for the price point.

I am guessing the excellent reliability is largely down to Tippmanns new design bolt group that fully uses the KISS (keep it simple stupid) design principal.

Instead of the Spikes/CMMG "Ciener? type" self contained group, Tippmann appear to have massively simplified things by using a simple one piece bolt assembly that fully reciprocates using the buffer.

It even has a fully functional last round hold open and (largely irrelevant) forward assist.

The only downside I can see is the lower isn't apparently fully standard AR and can't be used on other AR's and I would like to see a little more barrel information.

Very tempted, I hope they make a full length A4 build.

Edit... Just occurred to me the bolt design would easily lend itself to .22 WMR by adding greater mass. A new WMR AR choice would be good.

Interesting viewing John, what do they cost here?

Tippmann Arms M4 22lr Review - YouTube

Morning Gil, around £900 I believe, I haven't had an AR in a few years and these handy little carbines have peaked my interest I have to say.

I built one myself and use it regularly. Cheap and accurate, I use mine when there's a novice shooter that will need simple and a confidence builder by hitting golf balls or shotgun shells right away. Just put the red dot on what you want to hit... No recoil and short with the collapsible butt make it perfect for women too... Get a firepail full of mags...

Cheers Jim, very smart looking little Carbine, looks like yours has the CMMG bolt group, I had the same in my old Spikes tactical.

What I find particularly interesting about this Tippmenn M4 is the single piece reciprocating bolt group that uses the buffer tube, as opposed to the CMMG that uses a self contained short stroke bolt group.

Reported reliability and stoppages appear to be virtually zero.

My Spikes was very fussy and only truly fed and liked CCI mini mag reliably with low stoppage rates.

John,
I have always marvelled that a variety of .22 work or don't work in certain weapons, but side by side they are identical? CCI seem to work with everything and are probably the cheapest out there

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

John,
I have always marvelled that a variety of .22 work or don't work in certain weapons, but side by side they are identical? CCI seem to work with everything and are probably the cheapest out there

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Its odd isn't it Gil, .22 semi's are fickle beasts. The .22 conversion kit in my L1A1 is by far the most reliable semi automatic I have shot to date, failures are very few and far between. It does require HV ammo to shoot well though, Mini Mags work best.

I think a lot is down to the long bolt travel of the L12A1 bolt group and the large port to chuck out the spent case. I have a feeling the reason the Tippmenn appears to operate so reliably is also down to long bolt travel. The short stroke bolt group in my old Spikes Tactical used to jam spent cases quite often.

The quality of .22 lr ammo does vary, ever tried Remington Thunderbolt ....They are truly horrible quality ... God knows what the propellant is, smokes like a steam train and covers everything with sooty residue! My best guess would be black powder mixed with curry powder ... Looking at the consistency of the groups, I guess some have way more curry powder than others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

The quality of .22 lr ammo does vary, ever tried Remington Thunderbolt ....They are truly horrible quality ... God knows what the propellant is, smokes like a steam train and covers everything with sooty residue! My best guess would be black powder mixed with curry powder ... Looking at the consistency of the groups, I guess some have way more curry powder than others.

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Well you don't get much of a group either in the dunny after eating to much vindaloo curry do ya Clarky!!!! :confused::yikes:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Well you don't get much of a group either in the dunny after eating to much vindaloo curry do ya Clarky!!!!

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Never a truer word my friend ... that's probably a better more consistent propellant that Remington use in the Thunderbolt:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

looks like yours has the CMMG bolt group,

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Yes, mine is a CMMG dedicated. Yes, Remington thunderbolt is among the worst made. They use dung of their ancestors for propellant...

Nice one BAR

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

They use dung of their ancestors for propellant...

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:lol:

My Bremmer SAR 15 .22 Carbine (based on the US M261 .22 bolt assembly) and my S&W 15-22 both work really well with CCI Mini Mags. Never have a problem, but one of my shooting pals who has a Bremmer SAR 15 rifle has frequent problems, but he does like to fiddle with things that he doesn't really understand! Having good smooth working magazines always helps.

Evening John, does your M261 bolt group reciprocate with the buffer, or is it self contained?

Still wish I bought that Bremmer A2!

Cheers John.

Hi John, the Bremmer uses a self contained bolt. The buffer tube is completely blanked off. I use Black Dog mags that hold the bolt back after the last round. Not as good as operating the latch but better than nothing.
Regards, John.

I have the correct CMMG bolt hold open but not the right gen mags to operate it. I do that by hand and load from open bolt. Keeps stoppages to a minimum.

I had the chance to have a look at Tippmann M4 .22 at the British Shooting Show at the NEC Birmingham today. It didn't feel quite as heavy as my Bremmer SAR15 but still felt more like the "real deal" than my plastic fantastic M&P 15-22. Everything including the forward assist and last round hold open works just as it should. The magazines look good too. Apparently shoots to 1/2 inch at 50yds with CCI Mini Mags (according to the importer). If I was in the market for an M4 type carbine in .22 I would certainly consider spending the extra money (£899.00 rrp) over the cost of the M&P 15-22 (which I love) or the Colt M4 / H&K 416 replicas.

Regards,

John.

Cheers John, thanks for the feedback. 1/2 groups at 50 yards straight out of the box is quite a claim!

It really would be very simple for them to modify this setup for .22WMR.

That would be a very smart rifle.

Very nice video from Plinkster.22. Thanks

Well, I had a good look at one the other day and signed on the dotted line.

As John H has said, definitely lighter than the standard AR aluminum, the fit and finish are exceptionally good, no gap between the upper and lower and rock solid together, the flip up sights work well and the trigger is noticeably lighter with a clean break (feels about a 3lb). Its better than some of the after market AR trigger spring kits I've used in the past!

The barrel looks to be very well made with a heavy profile.

Variation going in before I can pick it up, but looking forward to testing its claimed excellent reliability and accuracy.

The thought did occur to me that these would make excellent training Rifles for US police departments.

Pics when I get her.

Nice one John, Variation...... I put mine in the other day but not for what your getting, have a feeling once its back I may put an other in, tempted by a Broomhandle Mauser I'd seen.......

I like the bolt on the Tippman, look forward to the pics and review.

I have the Tippmenn guys, picked it up Saturday, great bit if kit. Very impressive build quality, pics and range report when I get a chance.

Pics would do for now John, keep us going till the range report......

Will do Geoff, its gone straight into the safe at the moment, works all pervasive unfortunately.

Impressive package though, hard case, two mags, short replacement rails for the handguard, action lock and printed manual.

The manual mainly states the bleeding obvious, but it does give a full parts schematic, with parts numbers for everything, so that's very useful.

I added an Israeli army sling and handguard rail covers, I will replace the sliding butt and buffer Tube at some point, as its only two position and a little sloppy for my liking. (the only mild complaint I can level at the build)... Also I will replace the A2 pistol grip with a Hogue or Fab Defence item.

The only real criticism I can level is the cost in the UK, good value quality .22lr AR15 in UK terms, but massively more than its US price point.

That said, its extremely expensive to run a business in the UK and import from the US isn't cheap ....

Cheers John, Hope you got the Rat problem sorted........

Three dead rats in the attic Geoff, the bar Stuart's had gone through my old Bergen and shredded my sleeping bag!

Christ what a smell ...

Finally shot the AR today, impressed, shoots beutifully, dosen't miss a beat ... and throws each and every spent case in precisely the same direction and into a foot square area of grass 7 feet away.

A sign of a well engineered action.

I put 50 rounds through it to start bedding in and got her zeroed, very impressed so far, pics next week

Nice to have one put all the brass together. Also shows ammo that is consistent.

Cheers Jim, CCI mini mag. Pleasant hour at the range, had the place to myself.

Just me, my better half with a camera (a few pics posted this week) and the sound of skylark's.

Nothing to disturb the piece ... Except me.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Nothing to disturb the piece

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And if sound moderators were widely accepted, that wouldn't be so...

A few pics from Saturdays test run guys....Attachment 92408Attachment 92407Attachment 92409Attachment 92410Attachment 92411Attachment 92412Attachment 92413

Good photos there John, and a great fun piece to add to the armoury. Thanks;)

Cheers Gil, fun rifle to shoot, I wasn't really trying to group it to be honest, just get the action bedded in a bit with a bit of brass conversion and get her roughly zeroed, but once zeroed in, it was shooting very well indeed, looking forward to a proper range session to see what accuracy its really capable of, rested and scoped.

I tested the AR on Wednesday at 50 yds with a 3x9x40 scope on it and was amazed at the accuracy, it just kept printing sub 1" groups off my shooting bench. A couple of heath Robinson mods made to tighten things up

Adhesive felt pad added to the buffer tube to stop the slop in the butt, works a treat and the same cut into two thin strips and added under the rear take down pin, sort of home made "accu wedge" stops any movement between the upper and lower completely.

Sounds good John, As I've got my little wind fall I've a little bit of cash burning a hole in my pocket, I'm looking out for a nice semi auto .22........ I can at least buy another GSG MP5 for parts and finish off my project.......... but I'm tempted for a AR15 type.

Evening Geoff, I can recommend these mate, it was nice to finally get a scope on it and properly test the accuracy.

The relatively light trigger is a big help.

It was a relatively calm day and perfect to push the range out and further test the accuracy ... unfortunately before I had a chance to test her out to 100 yds, the tractor turned up to mow the range and curtailed shooting for the day...

Attachment 96947The Tippmen is going through a bit of a makeover at the moment, always used Israeli Fab Defence gear in the past on AR's, so I've gone fab again.

Fab defence mid length handguard, special factory order, pistol grip and butt with riser...

Still a few things on the 'to do' list, upper/lower refinishing etc, but that will have to wait until it's outside warranty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Its odd isn't it Gil, .22 semi's are fickle beasts. The .22 conversion kit in my L1A1 is by far the most reliable semi automatic I have shot to date, failures are very few and far between. It does require HV ammo to shoot well though, Mini Mags work best.

I think a lot is down to the long bolt travel of the L12A1 bolt group and the large port to chuck out the spent case. I have a feeling the reason the Tippmenn appears to operate so reliably is also down to long bolt travel. The short stroke bolt group in my old Spikes Tactical used to jam spent cases quite often.

The quality of .22 lr ammo does vary, ever tried Remington Thunderbolt ....They are truly horrible quality ... God knows what the propellant is, smokes like a steam train and covers everything with sooty residue! My best guess would be black powder mixed with curry powder ... Looking at the consistency of the groups, I guess some have way more curry powder than others.

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We only ship the BP/Curry Thunderbolts to England. The good stuff we keep for ourselves.:D

Al

Hi Al,

Joking aside, we struggled to get any .22lr out of the States a couple of years ago, but now all the CCI ammo seems to be available in quantity.

My AR seems to particularly like mini mag, accurate and never misses a beat.

It's a great little rifle and I can have fun shooting her at much lower cost than my full bore rifles.