Fake Rockola cartouche?

Saw a Rockola carbine with final acceptance stamps that piqued my attention the other day.

No only was the ordnance wheel and "RMC" stamped suspiciously evenly, deeply, freshly and sized too large, but it was stamped so deeply that it showed that the crossed cannons and letters used were all on one giant stamp, many inches wide. I can't remember whether there was even anything in the sling well.

I am pretty sure this was never originally the case right?

There were a number of other things wrong with the carbine in addition that pointed to someone trying and failing to "improve" the carbine or assemble an obvious fake, such as an early sight but stake marks consistent with an adjustable sight on the dovetail, barrel band, and more, but the stock stuck out at me the most.

And no, I can't get pictures. It's at a touchy store and I don't want to tick them off about the fakery.

If the store is touchy about photos and that kind of stuff, that would send up a red flag to me.

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Originally Posted by AD-4NA

I don't want to tick them off

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I wouldn't even worry about it. That sort of info is something you keep in your head unless they ask you. I was asked not long ago about a #4 Lee Enfield and gave him the whole rundown on it. A parts gun... If they need to know then you can let them know.

Touchy stores don't stay in business for long. Worst thing they can do is throw you out.
Mind you, 'one giant stamp' wouldn't be cost effective to have made. And lots of well known refinishing shops think nothing of charging for whatever cartouche stamps you want.

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Originally Posted by AD-4NA

Fake Rockola cartouche?
Saw a Rockola carbine with final acceptance stamps that piqued my attention

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I'm just trying to cover the stock stamps. Lord knows there are more than enough carbines out there with attempts at making them look original.
You'll see Examples of these Faked Stamps most every day in auctions. Here is one completed auction of a NEW MADE stock, with long barrel channel and REPRODUCED STAMPS (I Believe a Dupage stock). It sold for $290.00. The seller revealed it was Reproduction Stamped.
Here is the Completed Auction link : WW2 M1 Carbine Stock Handguard ROCKOLA | eBay

Sellers description below:

Up for bidding is a beautiful M1 carbine stock and hand guard made of walnut. The stock and hand guard are in excellent restored condition with no cracks or splits. The main body of the stock is a reproduction, the hand guard, and metal are 70+ years old made during WW2. This stock has been test-fitted with my own carbine, and fits and functions fine,.... This stock comes with a WW2 hand guard, WW2 Rockola butt plate, WW2 recoil plate stamped "Rockola" on top, and WW2 band spring. All photos are of the actual stock you will be getting. Please examine all photos carefully for a complete description. If you have any questions please ask before bidding. This stock would be great as a wall hanger, or as a shooter while you wait for that WW2 complete original...
INCLUDED
WW2 Recoil plate stamped ROCK-OLA
WW2 Early Hand guard stamped "RMC"
Walnut reproduction stock
WW2 butt plate manufactured by Rockola
Cartouche re-stamping
"P" on pistol grip


Reproduction / Fake Stamp
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/sl1600-5.jpg

Long Barrel Channel on a I Cut Hi-Wood Stock..... Not in WWII :nono:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/sl1600-6.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/sl1600-7.jpg

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Originally Posted by AD-4NA

it showed that the crossed cannons and letters used were all on one giant stamp

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The REAL Rock Ola with Crossed Cannons Stamp were a one piece stamp and often left a outer line impression when stamped. Most I've seen often (when it occurs) leave that impression at the bottom, below the Cannons. Example below.....

FWIW,
Charlie-Painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/09/RMC-1.jpg

Hmm, now I might need to take another look at that poor chewed up old thing.


Yes, I learned to keep silent while inside a shop a long time ago...

On that front, touchy stores do sometimes stay in business when they are big box retailers, sometimes with grumpy and occasionally inept old men in charge!

I'm not seeing the "long" barrel channel. The nose of the stock is "funny" shaped, though. - Bob

Hey Bob,
Your right...
I believe looking at that Bulbous nose threw me off. Should be more wood behind where the band spring goes in.

Like this Winchester:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04264-1.jpg

Charlie, I happen to own (it's a long story) a stock very similar to your eBay example above. It's got the same blunt nose, but it's an oval cut rather than an "I." Someone put Underwood acceptance markings on it and stamped MU in the slingwell. Another thing it has is the bomb marking behind the recoil plate, same as on this picture of the eBay stock. What can you tell me about that marking? I don't recall seeing it before. I thought maybe it was supposed to be an Underwood "thing" and was going to look it up at some point, but never have. Know anything about those? Thanks! - Bob

Bob,
Well you got me doing your homework again for you, since you know I'm laid up with the shoulder problems.......... :bash: Taking advantage of the crippled guy.... Geeezzzee.

Your's looks like those small Repro Bomb Shell stamps.
The common one I've see have no flame licks and are often on stocks that have the boxed RIA over EB stamped stocks, So is it something RIA added? I'm not sure, because we've run across stocks that had no acceptance stamps/CC's but had the bomb by the recoil plate, Maybe replacement stocks when accepted were stamped with it?
I know Frank 'The Foot' Derrico has run across quite a few also.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/RIAEB1-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=10143

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22377

Bob, You should be ashamed of yourself. Taking advantage of an old, decrepit old geezer like Charlie, eh I mean Joe. After all he not in the best of health between his ears right now and prognosis is not very good. He suffers from constant drooling over carbines :madsmile: There is hope for him and his kind that are afflicted the way he is.:confused: But it takes a lot of time and understanding. Till then we shall just have to put up with his rants and ravings.:bitch: We know you can do it Joe (Charlie) and we are standing being you.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

standing being you.

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Yeah,
Thus my main worry ..... Dropping something..... :ugh:

Joe

OK, I checked those older threads, so now know the "story" on the little bombs - didn't even have to open a book! I think this stock I have is a Dupage and it's possible it came from the same eBay seller. The picture I posted was from the eBay 'Rockola' stock. I'll pull mine out and take a look, but I think it has an identical "bomb" on the wrist. One problem I was working on before putting it away for awhile, was to figure out why the action is completely loose in that stock. I'm hoping it's due to an out of spec (might be commercial) recoil plate, but am afraid the shelf in the stock isn't cut correctly. Been thinking of trying to improve on the shape of the snout too, but could end up with something that looks even worse! May take a look at it today while waiting for some fresh snow to melt. :lol: - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

didn't even have to

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Originally Posted by USGI

putting it away for awhile

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Originally Posted by USGI

I'm hoping

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Originally Posted by USGI

Been thinking

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Originally Posted by USGI

May take a look at it today while waiting

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Bob,
Sure can't say your not the ambitious type ....... :surrender:

Charlie -Painter777

Carbine is still in the safe this morning. Been thinking about going out and filling the bird feeder - Maybe after the Nascar race is over. :wave: - Bob

To AD-4NA,

Apologize for getting so Off Topic.
Maybe now you see what I have to deal with, these old Buzzards like Bruce and Bob.
They're perfect examples of how low we set the bar for membership here.... :banghead:
You should have seen them back in Boot Camp........ :surrender:

Charlie-Painter777


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx40K27_GaY

Ok Charlie (I mean Joe) Go ahead and tell him about boot camp. Let him know there Bubba Gump what it was like. Why if it wasn't for Bob and I you would still be jumping off Shrimp boats instead of pretending to be a Picasso.:D

Well, it’s probably past bedtime in Michigan by now, so I should be safe in posting about the "little bomb" on my repro Underwood stock. Yes, it's out of the safe and the action is even back out of the stock - been busy today! Here's a couple of pictures. I never noticed this before looking at the pictures, but there's a wood filler "repair" behind the recoil plate, and also noticed that the cuts in the stock for the action and recoil plate are off center to the left. The hand guard is the same width as the stock, but because of the way the stock is cut the hand guard sits to one side and the barrel band doesn't fit very well. The "bomb" looks a lot like the one posted earlier from the completed eBay auction. - Bob