What caused this to happen?

I'm curious what you guys think might have happened to this shell case. I found this up in the hills the other day where a lot of locals go to shoot. I've found pieces of a revolver cylinder there before too, so that might give you an idea what can go on up there! From what I've found on the Internet, this isn't a caliber that used much in the military, so might not actually qualify as being a "Milsurp" round to most. After thinking about it a bit, I believe I know how it happened. Take a look at these pictures - I'd like to see your comments. - Bob

Looks like a 40 fired in a 45ACP.

That was my guess, but would hate to have been the one firing it! Case mouth now close to the size of 45ACP and the primer strike looks offset. Ever heard of that being done before? - Bob

The primer strike would be offset due to the 40SW round sitting lower in the chamber so the Hornady logo would have been on the bottom of the chamber. There would have been a fair bit of back thrust as well after obturation before the case swelled enough to grip the chamber walls it may have been some one with a Ghost gun that cannot get 45ACP rounds but tried 40SW at point blank range a chap sitting in a car well don't matter if it wobbles down the bore it still going to do the business.
Elmer Keith in one of his stories relates to how one of his friends was kept a prisoner by a cowboy who took all his rounds (45Colt) but let him keep his HG the lad one day found a smaller cal bullet wrapped the hull in paper till it could just be driven flush into the chamber when the chance arrived the young chap shot & killed the cowboy at close range, even though the round would have wobbled down the bore it did the business.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Ever heard of that being done before?

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Yes, there's videos on Censortube of people shooting the wrong caliber on purpose. Every once in a while I'll find a batch at the club somebody shot accidentally.

That's right, fired in a .45 chamber. The bullet comes out just fine...you can tell something happened by the sound too. Not dangerous to the firer though. I've seen enough of this over time, never done it myself. The use of a 7.62 in a 30 cal chamber leaves you a long straight case looking like a .444 Marlin rimless or a very long .44 automag...

There is a video also from demolition ranch or something like this where he tries things like these.
The shells get ruptured or bulged, but there is normally no overpressure.

Note that in the last photo of the series, the initial strike was close to the H of Hornady (in the headstamp). The case, expanding asymmetrically, pushed the base up, thus dragging the striker across the fired primer to the 0 of the 40 S&W headstamp. That is what caused the vertical lengthening of the striker indentation.

I'm aware of other "wrong" caliber ammo being fired in guns before, and should've been more specific that I meant the .40 S&W only. In this case, I thought it might not even fire since a .40 case is about .050" shorter than a 45 ACP. Also, wonder what kept the whole round from just dropping completely through the barrel? Maybe the weight of the bullet helped it to "catch" at the bottom on the front end of the chamber? Would it be possible for a .40 to be fed from the magazine if mixed in with the .45 rounds? It could've been a practical Joke by a shooting buddy who loaded his mags? :rolleyes: It seems like the firing pin would've had trouble reaching the primer, too. It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures, but there's no expansion on the side of case where it was in contact with the bottom of the chamber. It's completely flat on that side - since it was already in contact, the expanding gases didn't affect it any. - Bob

Fed from the mag or an open gun, the extractor would catch and hold it against the breech face. This looks like a Glock firing pin strike to me, thus long like a Bren gun.

I just looked at some good cases (45 ACP) that I picked up in the same spot that day. They all have small "bright" areas to both sides of the firing pin strikes. A couple of those cases were nickel plated Hornady and have about the same amount of tarnishing on them - been there on the ground awhile. Do you think a 1911 .45 extractor would "catch" and hold on a .40 case like you described? Thanks! - Bob

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Originally Posted by green

Looks like a 40 fired in a 45ACP.

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IF you read the post he said he found parts of the cylinder on the ground....

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Originally Posted by milboltnut

IF you read the post he said he found parts of the cylinder on the ground....

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In the past, for unknown reasons. Unrelated to firing .40 in a .45 chamber.

I found this many years ago. I believe a 5.56 was fired in an 7.62 AK.

Now thats a real bizarre one Skip...

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Originally Posted by Skip

I believe a 5.56 was fired in an 7.62 AK.

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Maybe...how does it measure up against a 7.62 x 51?

Another one is "9mm confusion".

Saw an interesting example of that the other day. A 9 x 21 case that was sporting a "belt". Other clue was the faint parallel lines along the case.

Best bet: Somebody with an MP5 got hold of the wrong ammo and gave it a whirl in the "work gun".

Theoretically, it shouldn't fire "out of battery", however.....

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Maybe...how does it measure up against a 7.62 x 51?

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I know longer have the spent shell.

I know a man that collects those too...

:D hhmmmm wonder who that bower bird would be........................!

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Originally Posted by milboltnut

IF you read the post he said he found parts of the cylinder on the ground....

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I think he stated he had found revolver parts there before in the past and not when he found the case.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Do you think a 1911 .45 extractor would "catch" and hold on a .40 case like you described?

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I just tried with my Auto Ord and the .40 fit and fed perfectly out of the mag. When I released the slide the cartridge was launched out of the barrel. Then I carefully tucked it in under the extractor and it stayed. It might work, it would when held vertically, I still wonder if that was a Glock that did that? Mine is a 22 so I can't try it. I'd need a 21...

Here are some pictures of the revolver cylinder. I'm not sure of the brand - maybe someone will recognize it? I found this on the ground several years ago very close to where I found the split .40 case. There are several revolvers out there that can fire .45ACP, but don't think it would be easy to fire a .40 S&W in one of them. Jim, does the Glock leave bright marks on either side of the firing pin dent? I have some .45 cases that I picked up near the .40 - I could take pictures. - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

does the Glock leave bright marks on either side of the firing pin dent?

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It leaves an oblong firing pin mark...vertical firing pin mark.

These .45's must be the same deal. I think my "bright" areas are from contact on the raised metal at the narrow ends of the oblong mark. Thanks for showing me something else I never knew before! - Bob

I have seen that bulging before. Happened when i reloaded some 44 mag rounds, but didn't have a box to put the reloaded cartridges in, so I used a 45 colt box. Went out shooting months later with the 45 and couldn't hit anything, pulled bulged and split cases from the cylinder and realized what I had done. :yikes:

Hopefully or should I say obviously your rounds weren't hot for the 44 Mag shooting them out of a 45 Colt now that would have been fun, I know when I shot factories out of my 44 Mag Super Redhawk it was a very lively beast in the hand indeed.

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Originally Posted by USGI

These .45's must be the same deal.

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Looks like Glock marks to me...

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

your rounds weren't hot for the 44 Mag

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Wouldn't matter, there's enough space to allow most of the pressure to just blow by. Nothing to contain it.

Were any beer cans found at the scene? Stray digits?

True enough BAR but what I was thinking of the .429" (.451" for the 45 Colt) pill not fully concentric with the forcing cone and getting a bit skewed but I guess the weapon fired as intended with no harm done to anything save for a bit more blast exiting out near the cylinder face and forcing cone.