Hi guys
Anyone could tell me when on aussy and british changed from solid wood to laminated to plastic furniture.
Thanks for the help
Andy
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Hi guys
Anyone could tell me when on aussy and british changed from solid wood to laminated to plastic furniture.
Thanks for the help
Andy
I sdaw my first laminated furniture in Malaya in 1967/8 on both British and Australian rifles. We were supplied with spares from pooled Ordnance in Singapore and our rifles were a mix and match - you were iissued with whatever was next in the rack whether it was an Aust or UK made rifle. Thyen you kept it forever. First saw plastic in the UK in the very late 70's as I recall
As Peter said, 67/68 for Laminate, first with the British, followed closely by the Australians.
The Australians switched to the green plastic carry handle at the same time as adopting the Laminated handguards.
The first Laminated handguards adopted by the Australians were supplied in kit form from the UK and finished with locally manufactured coachwood (I assume) laminate.
These early examples can be identified by their flat head rivets and lack of manufacturing marking, something to do with the heat shield too, but I can't remember exactly what now.
Later full Lithgow made examples had conventional rivets, the British adopted these rivets too.
Though developed in the UK, they were never adopted in large numbers here as full plastic sets were under development during the 70's, the fact Australia adopted our Laminate handguards and we adopted their plastic carry handle (in black) as part of our plastic re-stocking upgrade, shows how well Commonwealth cooperation worked back then...
thAnks guys
And what about solid wood and laminated?
What was the first issued? And when they swap from solid toaminated?
The triangular two slot handguards were adopted at the onset of the Inch pattern program by Canada, Australia and the UK.
Made variously in Coachwood, Walnut and Beech and fully interchangeable.
This pattern was closely based on the Fal three slot examples.
It was replaced in the UK and Australia as they tended to split along the cooling slots, also they could smoke after extended use.
The Canadians took a different approach and moved to a single hole in their handguards, they never adopted the laminates.
Also if it wasn't clear from the previous posts, I have read (and can't remember where) that certain rifles could have ended up with a mixture of plastic and wood furniture for a time - if, say, there was a wood handguard issue with a rifle around the time of switch over to plastic, the handguard may have been swopped out for plastic, but not the rest of the furniture at that time, so some rifles ended up with a mix of wood and plastic.
Peter or others may be able to confirm if this was correct.
I believe that was the case David, Peter, Mike, Skippy and other's have mentioned this in the past..
I think there a few Falklands pics with miss matched Rifles, as has been said, aesthetics are irrelevant in service, it only matters to us collectors.
The little single hole was always there...we eliminated the oblong cooling holes. Also there was a cost involved I understand, the left cost more than the right to produce. We kept the walnut as suggested...Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Is that how it was then Peter? You took your rifle from posting to posting? We couldn't even go for intercompany posting with our same rifle...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Australia started production of the laminated handguards in 1967, originally using British supplied metal pieces fitted to Australian made laminates. Once Australia has set up production they made their own metal pieces fitted to the laminates. The original laminated handguard design came from the British, but the metal pieces originated from FN, used on their Glass Fiber reinforced Black/Brown/Grey/Charcoal/Green etc coloured handguards.
The established view has been there are two versions of Australian Laminated Handguards Mark 1 and Mark 2. The difference being the use of flat rivets (Mk. 1) and then hollow rivets (Mk. 2)
In fact there are three:-
Version 1 (Using British metal fittings with Australian Laminates and flat rivets marked BS67)
Version 2 (Using Australian metal fittings with Australian Laminates and flat rivets marked BS68 or BS69)
Version 3 (Using Australian metal fittings with Australian Laminates and hollow rivets marked BS69, MA70 - MA90)
Australia used wood handguards between 1959 - 1967 (marked SLAZ59 - MA67). The green plastic carrying handles were introduced onto factory produced rifles in 1965.
Hi Kev,Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector
Always something new to learn ... I thought the plastic handles appeared a few years later in 67/68...
I am guessing the answer to this L1 anorak question is "pooled Ordnance", but I was wondering why so many clapped out ex Malay Contract L1's seemed to turn up in Europe with the NZ plastic carry handles? Was it from pooled Ordnance, or did NZ supply excess production to Malaysia?
I seem to recall you saying that they weren't widely adopted across the L1A1 inventory in New Zealand.
The NZ pattern carrying handle didn't appear until about 1980, the earliest photo Ive seen is on a rifle in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe where the Kiwis were there for the independence change over.
How frequently are NZ pattern carrying handles found on Malay contract rifles? its possible they have been fitted when the rifles were imported into the UK? a large quantity of ex NZ L1A1 SLRs made it out into the wild, about 7000 were sold to CAI and from there they were turned into parts kits and also sold elsewhere as complete rifles. A lot of NZ rifles had the carrying handles removed by a directive, the carrying handles to be replaced with a neoprene washer.
The main problem with wood L1A1 handguards was splitting longitudinally from the front cupped and threaded insert forwards for an inch or so. We had to patch those PDQ otherwise the screw and threaded insert would just rotate and nothing would get it out. for some years during my time in Malaya, a longitudinal split along the top rear along the rear of the gar cylinder could be repaired by roughing up the wood and overlaying that section with a 1" wide 2+" long 3/16" or so thick piece of wood beveled at the edges. It worked well and stood up to the rough treatment they got out in the Far East. But never saw it adopted in the UK. Laminated was the best things we had. I seem to recall that the quarter guard who formed up for visiting dignitaries couldn't have the laminated hand guards french polished or varnished because they were treated with some special chemicals. Probably the same stuff that they put into the single blokes tea!
Hi Kev,Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector
I have seen it on quite a few Rifles, I bought the furniture sets from five ex Malay Rifles that were slated for dismantling, three had NZ spec carry handles plus rather rough two slot handguards.
I've seen the same NZ handles on ex Malay Rifles in Germany too.
Why they are on there I don't know. I assumed surplus NZ examples supplied to replace the worn out wooden handles during the final years of Malaysian service.
They appeared to have been on the Rifles for some years.
---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------
Probably the same stuff that they put into the single blokes tea!:lol:
That's possible, maybe we sold them some surplus carrying handles after they had them removed and returned to base workshops.?
Here's some photos showing some of the various handguard repairs
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../hD0voGq-1.jpg
and the same on the Butts
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sR6iQBl-1.jpg
Thanks for the info kev, I think I have examples of slip patch repaired butts and forends in my spares box. I will have to dig them out.
We used to repair the front of the hand guards by completely cutting away the front at 60 degrees to half depth and wood patching at 90 degrees to the grain. That seemed OK. But once the threaded insert came loose again - as it would - it was the end of the line. That's a LOT of slip patches in a butt. But if needs must, then that's what you do.
As apprentices we would patch butts and grips time and time again until the cows came home just for the experience but it was NEVER good enough for Paddy Reilly or Jack Hobbs the class instructors. Some examples of superb work were presented to visiting dignitaries and a brass plate tacked on. But mine work was usually just piled in the corner with the remainder of the 'also rans'