Can someone explain different variations of US property marked Colt 1903 .32 pistols ? Thank You
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Can someone explain different variations of US property marked Colt 1903 .32 pistols ? Thank You
It would depend on serial number. Real US military pistols are between numbers 554,447 and 572,214. Ones that are blued ended at 1942 and were Parkerized from then on. All are type 4 pistols. Greatest value is those issued to Generals and must have paperwork as to that effect.
What about 1944 OSS pistols that are blued ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
The thing is no OSS pistols are listed as being such as no one has found a list of serial numbers used by OSS or one that I have ever heard of. If it can be proven to be one assigned to OSS then it would increase the collector interest in it and I am sure the value would go way up but like the General pistols there has to be proof. If it's a government purchased pistol then being blued it would have a serial number no lower then 554,447 or higher then approximately 562,000.
I see. A Colt letter would be proof where the gun was shipped.
Is a letter from Colt that shows a blued 1903 shipped to OSS should be enough ?
It should show the serial number of the gun...on the paperwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001
According to Brunner in his book on these pistols, there were over 2,900 of them shipped to the OSS. They fall into the serial number range of 541103 - 569725. There were also several hundred shipped to the Military Intelligence Service. They fall into a similar serial number range. A letter from Colt is the only way to know for sure if the pistol was sent to the OSS and that does not always confirm where it went. For example, there are S&W Victory Model revolvers that were shipped to the U.S. Navy in Rosslyn, VA, some of which are believed to have been for the OSS.
What's the serial number of the pistol in question?
Are they any pictures of this gun, or are we only talking theory.
Skip
Serial number range 558XXX
What is the difference in value between OSS guns and guns shipped for commanding officer ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Doniphon
The 1903 that went to a General was not shipped from Colt to the officer. It came from the supply system. Post war left over 1903 pistols were sold as surplus new in the box by ordnance. Not all OSS obtained pistols were used overseas. Many did not leave the US. A Colt letter will say where it went when purchased but remember if your pistol is Blued then it was not made in 1944. But it may have been issued by ordnance in 1944. The burden of proof of who what and where is on you. The value will increase if issued to a General or OSS use IF papered.
Confusing...... Colt archive letter that states how the gun left the factory , when it was made and where it was shipped is sufficient to show what the gun is. If letter says the gun is blued , was made and shipped in 1944 and went to OSS, I dont see any further questions . Am I correct ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
AP
You are correct. This is another case of if it's not my gun, it can't be correct.
Skip
That's what I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by skip_c
Skip,Quote:
Originally Posted by skip_c
Do you know if they were made with a Blued finish applied in 1944?
I don't know myself, so I thought I'd ask if you know?
If the Colt letter states it was made and came blued in 1944, it may be something not yet documented in any of the books. Makes for very interesting reading and the OP could have came across something really special.
So Please.... Don't go negative on a member/s trying to help.
Thx
Charlie-Painter777
You are not reading the information you have been told or your choosing not to believe it. If your gun is blued then it was made no later the 1942. (Colt records.) It could have been in Colt inventory for a few years before being shipped out. An order comes into Colt from the War Department for what ever division needs some 1903 pistols. ( Army, Navy or OSS.) Colt sends them and they go into that divisions inventory and are issued as required. This is how a blue 1903 made before 1942 was issued in 1944. Get a Colt letter. It will tell you the date it was made. And remember the pistols as shipped from Colt or when issued were not in sequence serial number wise. They went out the next one in line.
Replying to no one in particular:
There is another possibility - this parkerized 1944 model was reblued by someone in the intervening 3/4 of a century.
But as Bruce states, a Colt letter would tell the real story. And if I had one of these (some day) even close to WWII era, I'd be getting a letter so quick it'd make your head spin.
Ok. Colt letter says : made in 1944 , shipped to OSS in 1944. Finish : Blue. Gun is BLUE What is it ?
Don't know if this helps or not, but I found this info on Sam Lisker's ColtAutos.com :
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless .32 ACP serial number 571146 - Factory letter indicates this pistol was one of 1,000 shipped January 30, 1945 to the Transportation Officer, Springfield Armory, Springfield, Massachusetts for: Commanding Officer. It was manufactured on January 27, 1945 and processed on Colt Factory Order Number 4711. Most letters for these late military 1903 Pocket Hammerless pistols incorrectly indicate the finish as "blue" as in the case of this pistol as the change from blue to parkerized finish occurred at the Colt factory in the 561,000 serial number range.
The above found on this link:
http://www.coltautos.com/cagotm201612.htm
And this for production dates:
Colt Pistols and Revolvers for Firearms Collectors - Model 1903 .32 ACP Model 1908 .380 ACP Pocket Hammerless Production Dates
VR
Charlie-Painter777
Found a 558369 with no mention of production date on Lisker's site,
http://www.coltautos.com/cagotm201801.htm
CH-P777
Wait . Lol. Sorry everybody. So the gun I am talking about , which is indeed blue ( not parkerized) IS 558XXX. Letter says that is WAS shipped to OSS in 1944. For some reason , letter also says that it was made in 1944. Which is not possible , since the serial number dates it to 1942.......
Good News !!
it was bugging me to death.
I know how sharp Bruce is on these.
When proper, would love to see it.
Cheers,
Charlie_Painter777
Thanks, Charlie.... appreciate the help ... :beerchug:
Regards,
Doug
Well.....I guess I have a weird one. Lol. Called Colt Archives this morning to question the dates on my letter. So here it is. : Ser# 5589XX was made in June 29 1944 and shipped to OSS on Aug. 11 1944. Order # 4420 with 543 guns. My gun is definitely blue not parked. Serial number info I got dates it to 1942. Colt insists that its 1944.
Not all of Colts records are complete or accurate. This happened over the years and if I remember right and it's a hazy memory that Colt had a fire of some sort and some of their records were destroyed like 40 or 50 years ago. If I did remember right this could be the case of your information mix up????
I see. Basically, I will never know what I have.... :(
You have a letter so it's at least got that. As for blue v/s Parkerizing, I've done lots after the fact on things with attempt to make them look correct...years ago. If I wanted to do a worn park finish, change it to blue...I'd use a liquid strip until it was bare and then drop it unpolished into a good strong blue tank. It would cover and look correct. Then the use over the years would make it look honest. With a gun that's 70+ years old, no telling what was done three or four decades back. There was lots around and no one cared. These are/were an excellent carry and play gun so it would have seen lots of range time too...Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001
I take it there are no forthcoming pics? I'd like to see the wear on this one...
Also when referring to the "Book", and the splendid info inside...as soon as you read that it was specifically this or that, you find an example that's opposite.
Good Point BARQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
While searching for information about the OP's gun,
I've looked through a number of Colt letter images on the net.
See that many during War time production don't have a 'Manufactured date on it'
Then when looking at post War letters, many DO Show a production date.
IDK, Will assume as seen that some letters have made on dates, some don't.
And as I posted above, sometimes the Colt letter calls the finish Blued, when it is actually Parked.
Either way would love to see this one.
VR,
Still hoping the OP posts pics. Might help overall too...Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777