New Zealand Lend-Lease Remington 1903s

I recently purchased an early Remington 1903, SN 3,016,xxx, with all early features. The rifle has New Zealand Lend-Lease markings on the butt of the stock. An unadvertised extra was the CAI import markings near the muzzle. I was wondering if anyone on the forum has the backstory on how the rifles were repatriated from NZ to the US. I have read the interesting tale of the Red Star Remington 1903s on this forum and others, but I can't remember seeing anything similar for any NZ repatriationsAttachment 92348Attachment 92349.

Nice one, Being from NZ I love NZ Remingtons and am lucky to own one here as they are quite rare. According to the NZ government stores board, large mixed shipments of weapons went to the US in the 1960's this is all that I know.

http://www.armsregister.com/arms_reg...ield_m1903.pdf

Do you have any pics of the whole rifle and the NZ marks?

Roy

Interesting, so unlike my NZ marked SMLE, these 1903 were only "NZ/census number" marked on the stock?

I would love one of these in my collection.

The lend-lease '03 Springfields were used in NZ during WW2 for arming Home Guard units. They were all gathered in at the end of the war and ultimately returned to the US along with 66 M1917 water-cooled BMG's that were also used by the Home Guard (and Airfield Defence). As Roy states, the NZ marked '03's are rare in NZ (only a handful 'fell off the back of trucks'!). I have never seen one of the NZ marked M1917 BMG's here. The NZ marked '03 I once owned was in near new condition, early WW2 manufacture by Remington and made to peacetime '03 standards. The only guns that NZ retained in .30/06 were the M1919A4 BMG's used by the Armoured Corps, and the Browning aircraft guns that were used in the Harvard (Texan) trainers until the late '60's.

Many of the NZ 1903's in the US are in excellent condition, mine however is less so and appears to have fallen off a truck, which backed over it. It certainly got hard post war use as a sporter but fortunately the owner never managed to get the front band off past the front sight! and it just was dangleing on the barrel!
Miraculously a NZ marked GG stock turned (In Otago) up with a patina to match the rifle and I also had a couple of early Remington handguards. The Sn is 3007800 or so, and still has the early Remington WW1 features. Lusting after a NZ marked bayonet for it now.

Greetings and thank you to the NZ collectors for your kindness in responding to my question as well as for the great information. Here are a couple of full-length pictures of each side of the rifle. The buttstock markings are:

NZ (Broad Arrow) D
2765

I can get a closeup if it would be helpful, and am willing to post detailed pictures of any other areas of the rifle that you would like to see. It is in overall excellent condition and I am very proud to have it in my collection.Attachment 92465Attachment 92466

Beautiful NZ 1903, quite jealous:cheers:

Its on my wants list now .... along with a Lee Carbine and No4 to live with my ex NZ L2A1, LlA1, L2A3 and my all time favorite, my 1917 Enfield SMLE...

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Originally Posted by tristan

Here are a couple of full-length pictures of each side of the rifle.

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Nice Rifle wish I had one. Thanks for sharing the pictures

Strangely, only the complete rifles were returned to the US. All the spare parts (stocks, bolts, extractors etc.) were sold by the Government Stores board and wound up at McCarthy's gun shop in Dunedin. A friend of mine got the remaining parts a few years ago and still has a good selection left. I will be seeing him this weekend and see what he has left.

I acquired a 1905 Springfield Armory bayonet, the right side grip has a faint point up arrow followed by a Z and the numbers 6074 (just like the article in the second post), I believe this to be part of the Lend Lease to New Zealand during WWII. There are no markings on the blade to indicate the lend lease but the grips appear to have been there.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TRk629Vl-1.jpg

There was a good lot of 1903 parts in Wellington and the late Din Collings went home with saddlebags full on an old Indian motorcyle. I bought Dins parts at Teds auction. Supposedly a guy from Numrich came to McCarthys and bought all the bands, trigger guards, and sight collars. I am a regular customer of Adam. :)

There are two styles of NZ marks, NZ^D and N^Z, I should do some research as to whether there were two distinct shipments or just two depots marking them. The highest NZ number I have seen is in the 15K's

Stunning bayonet, I do Covet

Here are some of the requested pictures, just let me know if you would like to see anything else. Great information here from the guys in NZ which I will add it to my documentation on the rifle. Thanks again!

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What a nice rifle...

Thanks Tristan. It looks like your bolt has been played with, it has a A3 cocking piece and an odd stamp '39' on it, but it is a lovely rifle and that GG box RLB stock is exceptional.

I have a close one to yours and have a NZ LE #4.. The bolts on mine have the NZ applied number stamped on the bolt where your number 39 is. I’ve read a lot of the 03 bolts are mismatched but the LE due to design were not. My 03 bolt has a mismatched NZ Number. My No. 4 NZ numbers on stock and bolt match. Both rifles seem to have saw little use.

Hi P246, Would we be able to see pics of the bolt number on your NZ 03? the few Remington 03's ive seen in NZ do not have any extra stamps on the metal. Indeed Tristans one is the first ive seen.

That is very interesting, I would assume the nessasary fact of matching up Enfield bolts with Rifles, just carried on with the lend lease Springfields.

My Lend Lease rifle ended up in burial duty somewhere here in the States. The bore is pretty rough but the stock is nice. It was one of about 10 rifles that JB inspected from AL/VFW turn-ins and I bought it on the CMP Auction for $1200 about 10 years ago. Does your floorplate have the lightening cuts/milled? I think they were replaced in the Jan/Feb 42 timeframe with stamped ones.

. Does your floorplate have the lightening cuts/milled? I think they were replaced in the Jan/Feb 42 timeframe with stamped ones.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Lightening cuts in the floorplate? The only lightening cuts I know of are in the rear sight collar. In any case the last shipment of American arms to NZ appears to be in May 1942 well before any 03/A3 crossover stamped parts sometime in 1943.

Do you have any pics of your rifle?

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Originally Posted by Roy

. Does your floorplate have the lightening cuts/milled? I think they were replaced in the Jan/Feb 42 timeframe with stamped ones.[/SIZE]

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Lightening cuts in the floorplate? The only lightening cuts I know of are in the rear sight collar. In any case the last shipment of American arms to NZ appears to be in May 1942 well before any 03/A3 crossover stamped parts sometime in 1943.

Do you have any pics of your rifle?[/QUOTE] Yes, the early 1903 Remingtons had lightening cuts in the floorplate. I own SN3004295, 11-44. It's been a labor of love finding all the correct pieces. At this point and 8 years of searching I think everything is correct. Most all of the rifle was rust blued and had all milled parts. This requirement was amended in Jan 1944 to speed up production so during or after January 1945, we started to see stamped parts. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Any record of 1903a3's being lend leased to NZ?

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Originally Posted by BryanJ

Any record of 1903a3's being lend leased to NZ?

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Not that I am aware of. I say probably no.

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Originally Posted by Roy

Hi P246, Would we be able to see pics of the bolt number on your NZ 03? the few Remington 03's ive seen in NZ do not have any extra stamps on the metal. Indeed Tristans one is the first ive seen.

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Sorry I missed this, Let me get it out of safe and get some pictures, might be a couple days due to work.

I own 2 early Remington 1903's SN 3021131 and SN3004295. I picked up 3004295 about 11 years ago and knew it was special but had no clue. I was about this time I ran into John Beard and he has mentored me along the way. I't's not easy to restore one of these but I assume you guys know that. I struggled but managed to get about 90% of the parts and 3004295 had many original parts. Then I found a Boxed RLB stock and purchased a as new Hanguard from Dupage(he said he only had two left). Then things slowed down until a NZ marked 1903 popped up on the CMP auction SN 3021131. The bad new is that it was one of about 10 rifles used in funerals(Legion and VFW guns). The bore is very bad but other than than it became a free parts store for 3004295. So now at the end of the day I have a 90% correct 3021131 and a 100% correct 3004295 including the NZ marked stock. The stock was bashed around by whoever owned it. If you have ever been to a military burial conducted by the VFW or Legion they just carry the blank shooters in their trunk. Anyway the first 3 pictures are 21131 and the last 6 are 4295....the last picture shows the Lightening cut in 4295's trigger guard which was eliminated in 1-44 after the contract was amended. The bolt on the NZ rifle was never marked.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../05/1311-1.jpg
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Sakorick, mine is around 300500 range. I’ll try and get photos up work keeps interfering. Mine has a number on the bolt similar to my NZ No4. When JB looked at it on Culver’s my recollection was NZ bolt switched for another NZ bolt, rear sight Remington and mag cutoff wrong. I’m no authority on NZ 1903s/No 4#s ,but the LEs I’ve seen have New Zealand matching numbers on wood and bolt. I’ve seen several 1903s with NZ marked stocks and numbers on bolt. I do not think I’ve seen matching numbers on any 1903;Who knows. Your rifles are very nice. As stated I’ll try and get pics up in next couple of days. I might start another thread on the NZ marked No 4while we are at it. Until then have a good day.

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Remington M1903 New Zealand Marked 3005740 - Page 2

Here is the link to my Culver’s thread. I stand corrected JB said the bolt was non kiwi. Serial number is 3005740. It shoots M2 ball very well.

P246. Does 5740 have the Lightening cut in the HG? What is the barrel date, 11 or 12-41.

The barrel date is 11-41, I'll have to look at the HG when I get home, I can't remember for sure.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ukDlDnL-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../bJf2noj-1.jpg

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My hand guards are Remington high humps with one inch relief cut. Floor plate is Remington milled with no lightening cut.

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Originally Posted by P246

My hand guards are Remington high humps with one inch relief cut. Floor plate is Remington milled with no lightening cut.

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5740 should have the Lightning cut I should think. Perhaps it was changed for some reason....who knows??

I see about the lightening cut, I have never actually seen a trigger guard with one I have only seen the interiors of two R marked trigger guards and they are both mine.

Roy. Have you ever run across any 1903A3 rifles that were lend leased to NZ or 1903A3's having NZ lend leased stocks?

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Originally Posted by BryanJ

Roy. Have you ever run across any 1903A3 rifles that were lend leased to NZ or 1903A3's having NZ lend leased stocks?

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Bryan, by the time the 03A3's came out the US 03's and Canadian Long Branch Enfields had filled their needs. I do not believe any were issued to NZ.

I have never seen a NZ marked 1903A3. A3's sometimes pop up in NZ but they are far less common than 1903's

Sent you a email too Howard.

NZ only received No4's after the war had ended. The NZ army in Italy maintained use of the SMLE until war end

Thanks for the info and I believe what you are saying is correct. I have a beautiful 1903a3 with a NZ lend lease stock (NZ 8387, boxed RLB stamp, 5/43 barrel consistent with serial number). And I know in all probability someone swapped the stock out at some point, and that the barrel date is after RLB's career by a year or so. Just a puzzle why someone would take a beautiful stock off a legitimate NZ rifle and put it on a '03A3. This is what makes collecting these rifles so interesting and puzzling.

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Originally Posted by BryanJ

Thanks for the info and I believe what you are saying is correct. I have a beautiful 1903a3 with a NZ lend lease stock (NZ 8387, boxed RLB stamp, 5/43 barrel consistent with serial number). And I know in all probability someone swapped the stock out at some point, and that the barrel date is after RLB's career by a year or so. Just a puzzle why someone would take a beautiful stock off a legitimate NZ rifle and put it on a '03A3. This is what makes collecting these rifles so interesting and puzzling.

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As you know, a nice boxed RLB stock is worth at least $800. I would keep that stock for a early 1903 Remington restoration and replace it with the correct 03A3 stock.

Here's the mystery rifle I mentioned. Beautiful NZ stock on a 5/43 rifle.

Album — Postimage.org

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Originally Posted by BryanJ

Just a puzzle why someone would take a beautiful stock off a legitimate NZ rifle and put it on a '03A3. This is what makes collecting these rifles so interesting and puzzling.

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That beautiful NZ Remington may have gained a Monte Carlo stock and a scope around 1970 and someone would have been very happy with it.

In the FWIW Department:

After being repatriated to the U.S., many of the NZ 1903 Springfields were thereafter supplied as Military Assistance Program material to Greece, along with other M1903s and M1903A3s from U.S. inventory.

These served for many years in Greece. They bear no special Greek markings, but can be identified from the Greek practice of electropencilling on the bolt root the last four digits of the rifle's serial number. On most, the floorplate was pinned in to prevent inadvertent release (and stamped with a "B"). Eventually the majority were refurbished in Greek Army workshops, and many were re-barreled, sometimes with Sedgely "USMC" barrels. Stocks were commonly swapped, and relatively few remained with all their original parts.

These all were repatriated a second time in the early 2000s when Greece returned them to the U.S. Army for transfer to the CMP. CMP received about 45,000. Quite a few original NZ-marked stocks were found among them, though usually mounted on a different rifle.

M

Thanks MGMike

Do we know know when the 1903's went to Geece? because its not known for sure when the rifles went back to the US, it though that they went in the 1960's, I remember seeing a NZ marked bayonet for sale in Greece, wish I bought it even though it was expensive.

I'm guessing it was sometime around 1949-50, soon after Harry Truman announced that the U.S. would take over from Great Britain providing military assistance to Greece. By the 1960s they were receiving Garands. Most of those eventually went to CMP as well.

M

Thanks Mike

It is recorded that in the 1960's NZ shipped tons of surplus arms to the US, it is assumed the NZ Remigtons went at that time.

Roy

That's when they started showing up for sale in the U.S., especially ca. 1960-1962.

Thats good to know, NZ shipped all sorts of stuff to the US in the 60's that was used in WW2. Ever seen a NZ marked M17 in the US? We received them in WW2 mixed in with 1903's, we just received "30-06 American rifles" as recorded by the Defence Force.

Assuming it had the same markings on the stock as the NZ Remington M1903s, I don't think I've seen a NZ-marked M1917.

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Originally Posted by Roy

We received them in WW2 mixed in with 1903's, we just received "30-06 American rifles" as recorded by the Defence Force.

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That would make sense too, no difference in handling really...loading...

I think i've seen one NZ marked M17 here in NZ but never a NZ marked M17 or P14 bayonet. So perhaps M17's went to a different group of the NZ defence force.