Dunkirk

Don't know if these will be of interest, but I've ran past these Bunkers, Machinegun positions a good few times, I never run with a camera or phone but made an effort last night and covered 15k although I did have to stop to take the picks it was more to do with getting the sand out of the trainers.

The one that strikes me most is the one that has either been semi demolished or just built on, its on the beech front, between post war buildings.

The other is on the old part of the port, the two machine gun turrets are facing the inner of the breakwater and is built on the old quay (its were they evacuated) obvious this wasn't there then but believe there was kind of forte (has the Dunkirk Spirit on top) this also shown in the old Black and white picture.

A testament to the steel they used back then as its still got the access bars at the side leading up to the top and still hold my weight, a was tempted to jump down the hatch and have a look around but had second thoughts as I only had the phone torch.

Next to concrete bunker, are two horse shoe shape brick built positions which I guess was a temporary build before or while the concrete one was being built.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../CKBlb5v-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kVqlKLq-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Mb4fv0z-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../28mmUx1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../4FHQs8o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gPxiZwP-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gkfFebH-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../7qGy87n-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ojwrOGj-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../NuG93l1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../eX5Q1KC-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../BMOMoyt-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../DZBjvmQ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wFTlFiU-1.jpg

Geoff,
Nice images there mate.
Yes I think it was from a nostalgia reason they were left, I think they have in part been left up because of the sheer effort of anything manufactured these days to crush them up wouldn't cope with the amount of 1:1 mixed concrete of WW2, which was how they built them to deflect shell direct hits.

Very interesting Geoff, amazingly strong construction and so much of it for so many miles.

I suppose post war it just wasn't a priority, economic re-reconstruction was far more important.

You do see the odd half blown up bunker on the Normandy coast, no doubt by frustrated town Mayor's, with an eye on tourism and thinking they were an eyesore back in the 1960's, when no one needed reminding of the war.

Likje when they were building the M4 mootorway near Newbury. They decided to use the old USAF bomber base airfield and part of the runway at Membury as a hard 'plant' site. Then, at the same time, they could smash up the unused parts of the runways and use this as valuable hardcore while the farmers could have their useless land back. Alas, life and physics ain't that accommodating because breaking the runways up just wasn't going to happen, especially in the contractors lifetimes!! Most of it is still there as is nearby Ramsbury

I read recently that some of the Bunkers and fortifications in France will get some money spent on them to help preserve them, not because of why they were built, but to do with The Frenchmen who were forced to build them.

I remember when I was a kid and was always impressed by Pill Boxes in the UK, I remember one very well, It was on a corner of a Garden next to the main road on the A590 from Junction 36 of the M6, passed in many times and a lot more when I lived there, but as a kid it was just a pill box with the openings, later on I think the house or landowner made it into a shed as the openings are now glazed and the last time it had a little windmill on the top.

As I've just bought another Motorbike to basically do nights out the UK I will be in France on numerous occasions and the idea is to visit some interesting places and also try and get info and pictures and positions of the defences along the coast, maybe a sign of old age when you dismiss the pub for a concrete bunker or two.........

There are plenty of such bunkers even in Italy. On the coast of Liguria, around the 5 Terre and in the valleys that lead inland.
Or in German cities (Hamburg) or Austria (Vienna). Some of these cities are full of huge Flak towers.
The funny thing is that you seldomly notice them, unless someone shows you or, like a few here, you’re a history freak (buff;-D).

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------

An example here...Wiener Flaktürme – Wikipedia

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Or here...Hamburger Flaktürme – Wikipedia

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

This is Bonassola, close to Levanto and the 5 Terre...BUNKER DI BONASSOLA (SP) - FORTIFICAZIONI E ARCHITETTURA MILITARE

Peter,
Agree. USAF Alconbury where the U2's flew from in the UK. The runway is the longest in Europe and at 10 of concrete for its entire length is the deepest apparently.
Now a container port for the EDast Coast traffic and the biggest car holding area in the country...................crazy world and what a waste!

At Neuss, near Dusseldorf one of the massive flak towers has been converted into an (almost) cathedral sized church. The basements are still intact with fire doors and shutters and living accommodation together with a small room with the historical documents allowing its conversion by the British Occupation Army in 1946. AA mountings still in the roof too. An easy bike ride from Dusseldorf along the Rhine, along the nice flat countryside. As the wiley elderly old vicar there said to me after church one day '..........it is very flat around Dusseldorf and Neuss. The RAF flattened it......

Peter et al,
A sensible question and one that has always baffled me. Why, right the way back to the Norman Conquests, did builders of bow and arrow and also gun slits in bunkers and walls make the redoubt or angling face inwards??
Surely when a poorly aimed shot hits any part of that work on any side or roof it automatically would go into the bunker....................or am I being thick?? I know Irwin Rommel wasn't thick but it would appear he carried on the motion. All bunkers have the same logic. Here's an example of what I am saying in Normandy.
If you look at Geoffs 5th photo, bottom right of that blockhouse the same applied to machine gun ports too!!!!!

I guess the stepped construction of the sides helped to stop ricochet into the firing point Gil??

Drawing and swinging a bow to shoot to both sides without jostling the man next to you takes some space, which there usually isn't on the inside. Arrows hitting the stone sides of the embrasure will usually shatter and loose its impetus.
Allows a wider field of view without exposing yourself.

The picture of the gun position above:
The stepped space above to allow better elevation of the gun and minimal damage to the concrete above from its muzzle blast.
Explosions on the outer face won't add too much concrete dropping onto the gun and traversing capability. Absorbs the energy from direct hits quite well.
Uses less concrete for similar strength.
Looks impressive to scare you off from attacking.
Provides material for discussion many years later.

John,
Agree to a poiny but because it was stepped inwards the richochets would have more of a tendancy to go directly into the face of the firer inside!!

Gil, not going to say the obvious but if you look at the two pics below, one I never posted but the machine gun turret is a swivel like on a german tank and the armour is sections of 3-4 inch plate set at different sizes to create the angle but is built up as an angle as opposed as a straight line angle,the walls must be at least 3 ft thick or greater, its a far greater ark of fire and sight compared to our pill boxes that had just the small opening but was on every side.

The particular bunker I guess had something on top also as there is a section that looks like its been removed and back filled, I'll get some more pics next week. but pics below of the built up section of the machine gun turret/swivel

Its a shame the shadow on the two pics as its clear in the flesh the hole for the MG 34 or 42 that went through the other holes I can say was for viewing or even had some form of sight , telescope ?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../crFEb6V-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gPxiZwP-1.jpg

A sensible question and one that has always baffled me. Why, right the way back to the Norman Conquests, did builders of bow and arrow and also gun slits in bunkers and walls make the redoubt or angling face inwards??

Gil, if you mean why are the firing ports, etc. wider at the outside than the inside, then the easy answer is are of fire. Having the firing port wider on the 'away' side and narrower on the firer's side allowed the firer a wider arc of fire, say 60 to 70 degrees versus 30 to 45 degrees.

Phil,
No it was the purely the angling of the window, appreciate acrs of fire and it would be great, however, all return of shot would be angled straight back in at you on richochet.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Phil,
No it was the purely the angling of the window, appreciate acrs of fire and it would be great, however, all return of shot would be angled straight back in at you on richochet.......

---

Ricochets will normally deflect off of a surface (minus energy loss) at the same angle at which it strikes the surface just as a reflection on a mirror does. So, if the firing port has a smooth surface with a 45 Deg. angle and a bullet hitting it on a line perpendicular (from straight ahead) to the firing port aperture will deflect at 45 Deg. and should strike the opposite surface. Stepping the surface as shown in the illustrations above will, as said above, deflect a bullet coming straight at it back towards the firer (minus energy loss).

I have always assumed that the angles around "meurtrier" arrow slits in castle walls and gun emplacements was to allow a wider field of fire.

If you should visit San Pedro, Calif you can still see the bunkers and gun pits put in to repel the expected WW2 Japanese invasion. :ugh: