Lend Lease Garand markings details

I tried not to start yet another thread on Lend Lease Garands but Im looking for more info than what is out there. Ive got 5 books on garands and the lend lease info is skimmed over IMO. I know the proofs were put on after the war. Ill start with the sight covers. RCS has a couple videos on youtube ,that you can view in HD, that reveal single numbers or letters on the sight covers. They aren't given direct attention and just happen to be in the shot. Ive observed multiple rifles with "7" or a "P". These seem to show up on the serial block of the lend lease rifles I've been tracking the sales of for a while. I haven't found an explanation for them but for a single mention on a single thread in a forum, but no details. These unmolested, typically original rifles, of the 6 digit variety have this mark often but I haven't seen it on a 6 digit thats out of the lend lease range. Maybe coincidence or chance, I don't know. There seems to be a correlation with British proofed garands and a marked sight cover.

Does anyone have a true lend lease with a single number or letter marked sight cover and does anyone have a British proofed garand that is out of the known range with this mark? The being to try to rule out it being a British mark or an American mark

Next is the British proofed bolts. Ive seen mostly terrible pictures of these british marked bolts. I have a couple bolts with marks and nothing good to see if they are hardness test marks or export marks. Anyone have some pictures of those?

I have data on two M1 rifles that are not British proof Lend Lease rifles that are in the known Lend Lease serial number range.

They are s/n 328259 with SA 8-41 barrel and rear sight cover coded L and s/n 329128 with rear cover coded L or 7

Also have a list that Tony Giacobbe put together of the known codes on rifles from 286331 to 2135758. There is a P coded cover on s/n 543053 (4/42) in this list. Winchester did not use the coded covers

The coded covers stated in mid 1940 on the flat covers then the indented covers into 1942. RE: the punch used to stamp the bolts soon became worn because of the steel hardness and it is very
difficult to find a bolt with a readable lend lease punch mark

The rifles were supposed to be marked on the barrel, receiver, and bolt lug. The softer barrel steel took the stamps well, but the harder receiver and bolt did not. IIRC the first to be dropped was the bolt. They continued to whack at the receivers, even after the dies were blunted so much that the mark is just a blotch.
There was nothing in the proof regs about marking the sight cover. Those are US marks that were on there when the rifles went overseas.

I had 328219 SA and the mark on the receiver and bolt are as Bob states, just a smash mark. You can't make out a crown. My other LL marks were over the chamber area. The sight cover indeed has a marking, but it's a "Glyph" and really can't be made out. As Bob said, this was a US marking when manufactured. As RCS states, they vary... The problem here in Canada is that so few of these guns actually exist in original form that it's hard to examine one and not find parts changed, no matter how minor.

here is a photo of the type of mark that Jim was talking about (it is from 380931)Attachment 93186

Yeah the lack of original Garands in Canada makes this tough. I have 474881 with the "7" on the cover and I've seen 474863 with the same "7" both British proofed. That and lack of documentation in books is what led me to start looking for more info on this. Bob said they are US marks and RCS says they marked the covers from mid 1940 to sometime in 1942. Is there somewhere that mentions this? Im curious to see more to try and find a beginning and end to these markings. Page 47-48 of Joe poyers book make mention of a punch mark but based on the detail in the rest of the book you'd expect it to mention obvious letters and numbers. Id love to attach a photo here but im not sure how to do that.

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Originally Posted by RCS

rear sight cover

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The pic of my old gun is just a mark, not even recognizable... Thus I didn't save an example.

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Originally Posted by WW2GURU

Joe poyers book

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We don't hold that one in very high esteem for info value...

I can attach a photo if you send it to me via email. Check your pms...

From information in Billy Pyle's book, "The Gas Trap Garand" plus data sheets of known original rifles, the following sequence is listed:

The first rear sight covers were marked B-8872 than B 8872 and by Nov 1939, B8872 which lasted to around serial number 59xxx. Replaced by the
un-marked cover which lasted until Dec 1940 when the indented cover appeared in production.

Rifles in your 474xxx serial range also have rear sight covers marked 3, J or L

Here's his pics now. The markings on his rifle are consistent with an LL rifle, the bashed crown stamp and the small digit/number ion the sight hood. Nice knurled/checkered knobs too... Republic steel lot 5A, Springfield revision 2 on the bolt... All look good. Now about the rest of the rifle in pics...?

We THINK that's Republic but nobody has yet found a list of the codes. There was also a Rotary Electric Steel Company, plus sometimes the code was given to a division of a large company like US Steel. It's really M1-Nerdy, but I'd love to see the list of heat codes!

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Originally Posted by bob seijas

I'd love to see the list of heat codes!

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It would sure help...

Here's more pics of the OP's rifle...

In regards to my rifle, sadly the original stock is gone along with the grooved clip. I received it with a modern aftermarket stock and a different gas system that included a brownells adjustable gas plug :(. I had to do something with that awful piece of lumber so I put on a postwar refurb stock and a replacement NOS gas system. I figure at least the postwar stock is a real garand stock and not a fat imposter. It makes me ill to think someone probably threw out that original stock because it looked ugly to them. Maybe I should thank them for changing the gas plug because they probably saved the uncut oprod from getting bent with the wrong ammo. sad sad sad.

Im working on a list of reported British proofed rifles that Ill share here. I did some time consuming reading to try and find some more data that would tighten down the lend lease serial number concentrations. Again its more of the same probable and likely info than fact. But really its the case with all these rifles after circulating the globe for the better part of a century. Info includes Scott duffs findings, National archives, Springfield armory museum and a sliver from the British pattern room. I have no idea if anyone has done it before but if it has I haven't come across it.

There is a collector of Lend Lease M1 rifles and data related to them. His name is Brian Case from Kent, Washington. He often post on the m14 forum.com or just
do a search on him. He has been collecting data on these rifles for years

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Originally Posted by RCS

He has been collecting data on these rifles for years

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I submitted mine to him...for instance...

Thanks for the heads up. I contacted him as well.

This S-A 8-40 barrel has the London proofs and is not among the 38K that were considered true Lend Lease rifles. The GCA has a data sheet on s/n 7860 also with the same S-A 8-40
barrel and London proofs and listed as a "direct conversion" from gas trap to gas portAttachment 93362

Recall that the LL specs on rifles originally called for rebuilds, including Winchester, and then a small percentage of new production. We published a recap on the Lend Lease guns in the Fall 2016 GCA Journal and illustrated a rebuilt Gas Trap with Brit proofs.