Lend Lease Garand data mining results

I haven't found the following info collected in one place so here is what I have. Brian Case mentioned elsewhere he had collected info on 200 LL rifles and he was going to publish it but looks like that hasn't happened yet. I tried contacting him to solidify some of these findings but his online footprint seems to drop off December of 2017 and I haven't heard back.

Heres some info gleaned from usriflecal30m1.com so take it with a grain of salt. As I'm sure most of you are aware the data on here certainly has issues as it's user submitted. I would say that instead of the submissions being 90% lies I would say that its more likely 90% honest reports. The point was to look for high probability instead of hard truths and for the most part is limited to this particular site. I haven't added up the total number of reported rifles and I've only generally overlayed the serial ranges on production dates. This is what I found after some tedious searching:

Between serial blocks 300000 and 750000, which Scott Duff identifies as the lend lease range, there are high concentrations of reported serials and a noticeable drop off of serials after pearl harbour which is to be expected. Overall there are no serials reported as British proofed from 200000 up to number 310801. There are no British proofed serials reported from 719700 up to 900000 (I stopped looking after that). The first batch with many British proofed rifles appear in the 320xxx range. Then from 37xxxx-39xxxx. 406762 appears by itself and then only a half dozen appear in the 437xxx-470xxx range before hitting another batch in the 520xxxx-54xxxx range. After this there are maybe another half dozen. There are 3 serials (296824,293916,731946) reported as import marked but the country isn't reported so I've left them out. I know full well that there are rifles that exist out of this particular list but thats for the owners to add them to the site.

Mixed in with these are most, if not all, of the five .280 cal British conversion trials rifles from 1949. 4 of 5 of these are Lend lease serial range rifles. Serial 384273 is in the inventory of the Royal military college of sciences in the UK. Serial 670888 is in the inventory of the MOD Pattern Room in the UK. Serial 719700 and 2963441 (1944 rifle) are both in the inventory of the Springfield armoury museum. The last rifle serial 527568 is in private hands via auction as of Dec 2013. All 5 of these have documents and pictures supporting their existence. After reading several documents from Springfield archives and the MOD pattern room,
'I feel" that when the testing was done in the US in 1951, serial 2963441 was sourced and assembled at Springfield with a barrel supplied by the British and the other 4 were all modified in Britain.

I hope my highly speculative info is helpful and at least interesting.

Fascinating study - thanks for all that effort! Within the limitations of owner supplied data, you can still arrive at some good conclusions. For history to be known and preserved, it must be studied - usually by those who love it!
My oldest Garand is a 234,xxx rifle that, due to no overhaul and mostly correct parts may have been brought home from the US Army with service in Alaska. It is important to gather this info while there are still sources and interest - and put it into some form that will be preserved. Again, thank you for your efforts! CC

Some advanced Lend Lease M1 Rifle collectors only consider the later 1941 and early 1942 BNP proofed (at the rear of barrel under the operating rod) to be true Lend Lease early
rifles from the first group of 38K rifles. Also interesting is that you can find rifles in this same group with BNP proofs between the gas cylinder rings on the front of the barrel too.

Just a reminder that you are researching only the portion that came from new production. There were a lot of rebuilt rifles with earlier serials, of course.

Was there any issue of these rifles here in the UK?

Or did they just remain in store?

Attachment 95482I bought this Lend Lease rifle directly from Milt Klein many years ago. I may have fired around 2500 rounds over the years and kept this rifle original except for the removal of the red paint. The gas cylinder was always dark. Notice how Attachment 95478Attachment 95479Attachment 95480Attachment 95481the right side of the bolt and receiver ring also have the Lend lease stamp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrclark303

Was there any issue of these rifles here in the UK

---

There are actually pics of Commando carrying M1 rifles...

The lore says that some were issued to air base guards, but I have never seen any documentation. There are several references to Commando use.

Iv'e done a search for Commando use of the Garand, all the images I can find appear to be Korean War related, nothing WW2?

I would think that these Garands probably came from US stocks in country, as the RM's were working closely with US forces at the time. It would make sense that they had common weapons and ammunition supply.

I watched a very interesting programme about the Garand rifle yesterday on Quest and a compnay called Vulcan Engineering in the U.S bring a beaten rifle back to brand new, right through the whole sand beading and wood revitalised bit.
Fascinating. Anybody heard of Vulcan before in the States?

I recall a reference that the Brit Commandos tried the M1 and "loved it." IIRC they requisitioned about 1,000. Of course I can't find the source when I need it.

John,
This is an image of Marine George Barnes on U.S Destroyer Horace BASS just before a raid into Korea in 1951, so they were in use then, hope this helps.

Thanks for the pic Gil... Very interesting indeed.
I was at the Warminster collection last week, perhaps I should have paid more attention to the Garands....
I will check them for the requisite markings next time.

Scruffy bunch those Royal Marines, and as you can see from the photo, they don't carry a lot, not like us PARA's :lol::lol:
Incoming!!!!

Interesting that 406762 is not in a block. I own that rifle and currently have it for sale.

Thanks for the info.

Another interesting point, when I bought my Lend Lease rifle years ago, I shot it over the years. There wasn't a warning or information about the
round firing pin. I had the 1947 ordnance manual which did state to replace the round firing pin - but no warning, it also said to replace the flush
nut rear sight and the short fork follower rod too. Much later Billy Pyle and Scott Duff published information about the round firing pin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bad Gambler

Interesting that 406762 is not in a block. I own that rifle and currently have it for sale.

Thanks for the info.

---

Bad Gambler,
I wouldn't worry too much about that. These rifles like the Lee Enfield breed were made in very stressful wartime conditions in the main, and it is known and possible that those charged with this unique work, didn't always mark their products right. Of course many years later here we are giving relevance to sectioned numbers and the period they were manufactured, not so in many cases. So in short enjoy the rifle and I hope it sells well for you.

He's located in Windsor, Ontario Canada. I saw the video and have mixed feelings about working vintage weapons the way he does. I guess if it's a basket case with no collector value, it's an option. To take a collector grade weapon and do it his way would be a sin IMHO. The one thing I noticed that really bothered me is that he didn't plug the bore and gas port of the M1 Rifle when he phosphated it. To me, that's a gross lack of attention to detail. I go to great pains not to flood barrels with Parkerizing solution when I do that work here. I think others here that perform these type services would agree. I also only use AAA glass beads to blast metal parts. It just cleans the metal perfectly without etching it badly like sand does. Just my opinion after doing this kind of work for near 30 years. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

I too found sand brutal and we only used glass beads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RCS

There wasn't a warning or information about the
round firing pin.

---

I too had one, 328219 and it came with the round pin in the buttstock and a flat pin inside. Without knowing why the black, nice one wouldn't be inside I installed it, in 1976 or so. Then later I changed it out so it wouldn't be worn like the flat one. Again without knowing. I shot it while installed and had no trouble, but trouble was documented and I'd have wept to have destroyed a rifle like the pics of the one in Pyle's book...since the rifle is sold and last I knew it was in a collection of WW2 M1 time capsules in London On. 5 rifles all original and with the 5 different inspector cartouches on the stock. Top one in the pic was mine...

One Big issue I have seen is when they were re imported back the stocks were all mixed up from cleaning of the many rifles. You will see many early with short channels and many late with long channels due to this. I also still am lost how Scott Duffs book shows only early with long channel stocks and large cannons. That is incorrect as I have handled well over 200 GHS stocks and it is pretty clear cut that Large and small cannons were used all though out. I have found the the earliest seem to be Large cannons but this is for a very short period of time. I have also seen a No Trap GHS stock Rick B

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick B

the stocks were all mixed up from cleaning of the many rifles

---

Yes, we were aware of that and when mine sold he and I discussed that one... I still have a full folder of the pics...long channel and small I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Yes, we were aware of that and when mine sold he and I discussed that one... I still have a full folder of the pics...long channel and small I think.

---

Hi everyone, Scott from Scotland here. I am currently attempting to make a master list of as many BLL rifles as possible. We do have a Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2395401994104009

Foranyone who is not on Facebook if you would be happy to please feel free to send me a some info about four BLL if you had one or Any you know of. Your name will not be used unless you want it to be.

I just purchased an M1 the other day and turns out it's a lend lease!😁

Scott