Swiss 1911 disappointing?

I probably shouldn't say disappointing as I admittedly rushed my shots...

So I finally got my Swiss 1911 I picked up from Classic out to the range to see how she shoots. I brought it out with about 5 other rifles I had to 'break in' or re-zero. When I finally got the the 1911 I was getting short on time so I think I probably rushed my shots more than I needed to. Between that and the PPU ammo I had on hand my groups probably suffered. Still, at 25 yards at expected better groups... The windage was on but there was probably an inch to an inch and half vertical string over the course of my 3 groups. The rifling is strong so I don't think the barrel condition was an issue. I assume it was mostly me rushing my shots but I'm still a bit disappointed considering the reputation this rifles have.

I'll take her out again in a few weeks after I get out of the field and set it up in a lead sled and hopefully get better results.

I'm not sure what PPU's reputation is with the Swiss ammo. I know they aren't very good for Carcano's but most speak well about other calibers. Best thing to do is keep an eye on Midway and buy a case of Swiss surplus when they get it in and offer their free shipping deal.

Check the action screws. The front should be tightened first, then the back end, then the middle one brought up snug, but not dogged down.

band screws should be tight.

If you are shooting it off a rest, be sure to support the stock in the exact same spot on the rest, shot to shot, or you can get vertical stringing due to the variable jump, front load pressure on the barrel

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

Check the action screws. The front should be tightened first, then the back end, then the middle one brought up snug, but not dogged down.

band screws should be tight.

If you are shooting it off a rest, be sure to support the stock in the exact same spot on the rest, shot to shot, or you can get vertical stringing due to the variable jump, front load pressure on the barrel

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Is there a specific torque poundage I should be looking at when I do this? While I'm asking, since I just picked up a K31, is there a different torque poundage for that rifle?

Good advice on the screws. I've got a 96/11 that the screws loosen up on after about 20 rounds, and the result is shots stringing vertically. I also had one 1911 rifle that would never shoot accurately no matter what I did. I tried adjusting the stock, shims, etc. Finally had a gunsmith counter-bore the muzzle and the accuracy improved significantly. Hard to find one of these rifles that has been shot out, but you will see one occasionally.

One thing to keep in mind is that the 1911 and earlier rifles have been in the US a lot longer than the K-31s because they were surplused earlier. Thus they have likely been shot more without being subject to the maintenance and repair programs in Switzerland.

Be careful of cleaning rod damage to the muzzle as this can quickly destroy accuracy and is easily preventable.

In addition to the other comments about the bedding of the 1911, make sure that there is nothing jamming up the metal collar that supports the muzzle end of the barrel. The barrel is supposed to be a semi-free float if I understand the design correctly, where the barrel have a small amount of movement within the collar and is supported by whichever side of the collar is facing the ground.

Also keep in mind, not all guns were great and there is a chance to get a mediocre one.

I did some sight in work on a Remington 700. The barrel is bent (factory) so it does not bore sight well, but it shoots 1.5 inches groups so fine for hunting for which its used.

Bores are mystery and appearance only says it has a chance to do well, the rest is in all those barrel making fiddly details.

PPU brass is good but I do not know how it shoots in 1911 or K-31.

Commercial PPU ammo is one of my favourites, however I know it isn't very accurate ammo. When using my P14 my groups open up with their .303 over when I use my reloads. Try some GP-11 if you want a actual test for accuracy, some of the best ammo you will ever find.

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Try some GP-11 if you want a actual test for accuracy, some of the best ammo you will ever find.

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Its gotten very hard to get.

Think about starting to reload. Buy a used press if money is tight.
PPU has not been accurate in any of the lots I tried.
Good source for brass though.
Action screws should be checked before tou start shooting.
Torquing to a spec not really needed. Front screw tight, but not so much to risk damaging screw.

1911 disappointing? It's the most accurate of the three.
1911 at 200 yards, scoped ......... 5 rounds, fully repeatable.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/zfk002-1.jpg

... and, at 300 yards. At longer ranges we always try to shoot off the bullseye. Easier to see the POIs with the spotting scope. This one was 8 rounds.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3t1l7ceo-1.jpg

....... and 5 rounds at 125 yards with a zfk55.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nAR10002-1.jpg

This one........

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...k55IOR10-1.jpg

The Swiss Products Range is 500 yards. Too far to see the target framework in this one.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7abeb227-1.jpg

This is the Winter ShootShed at the 100 yard mark. Double ported for bench and prone, it's heated and lit for temps to 35 below zero, but........... Nobody ever wants to change targets when it's that cold.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1866-1.jpg

That scope on the zfk55 is an IOR Valdada fixed 10 power on one of our zfk55 Replacement Scope Mounts.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/315502-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...55mount1-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by diopter

Think about starting to reload. Buy a used press if money is tight.
PPU has not been accurate in any of the lots I tried.
Good source for brass though.
Action screws should be checked before tou start shooting.
Torquing to a spec not really needed. Front screw tight, but not so much to risk damaging screw.

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I will eventually reload for the caliber, I was (still am?) just unsure whether to go with dies for 7.5 Swiss or 7.5 Swiss (K-31) or if it really matters for my Swiss rifles... And honestly I'm in the middle of a PCS move so won't have my reloading set up available for another few months anyway.

I have tightened my action screws tho, and while I don't remember what my groups were the last time I took the rifle out I didn't get the vertical string I did when I started this thread.

Per Pierre, if you get the RCBS or the Redding dies you are good.

I have the RCBS Match set and works just peachy keen.

I am guessing 1/2 MOA.

I am lucky to get that on a good day with my Bull Barrel 30-06 or my build up 7.5 Savage with a Lothar Walther barrel.

And it's usually my son who does the winter target changing. I stay warm in the ShootShed.
We print our own targets on a 4'x8' sheet with some 24 targets at a time.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tShed001-1.jpg

Lower port open for prone shooting. Does anyone know why that black setup is there?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1922-1.jpg

Top Port open.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tShed003-1.jpg

To limit the amount of light coming in from the side so the sensors can more readily read the projectiles interuption of the overhead light the path of the projectile over the sensors and between the light screen momentarily casts a shadow over the sensor thats how those type of chronographs function.

As you would get that much glare from the snow all about it could lead to erronous readings or the chronie not working at all due to the relected sunlight or ambient light.

Exactly! LOL
Not a lot of shooters know that unless they're from snow country. That was from a number of years ago, and since then we use infra-red sensors.

How do you deal with the slugs when you cut up that wood? :madsmile:

We don't. As the pile disintegrates, we simply add more deadfall.
P

Sweet. Looked like firewood.

Lots of deadfall still in the woods on our place, all to the east of the south pasture. That's the source of our 500 yard backstop, the longest we have here on the place. For 1,000 yards we go down the valley to the old Monk Ranch.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/img035-1.jpg

And if you run out of long range targets, there's always the elk at 4 to 500 yards out.
They're here 3 times a year in the south pasture. Last count Ma and I had last September was 185 head.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/02/298-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...xm1qytxe-1.jpg

I got the 1911 out today. Last session was just a trial to see how the Eyepal worked. The rounds had been in the Lother Walther barrel (7.5 Swiss on Savage action) and were not happy even with the shoulder knocked back.

I got new PPU brass for the 1911, trial fit (which I had done when I got it) and it was fine. So I loaded up 50 rounds in the area of what the R17 is but used IMR4350 (they are very close in the 49 grain area though they split out as you go higher and I am about out of R17).

All worked well, I could see the 4 inch black ball on Orange, the groups were not great but on paper (front sight needs adjusting ) the battle sight shoots 8 inches too high but I was able to accommodate it all and get results and more time in with V sight I have not shot in forever.

Last round I thought I would just try a shorter COAL by .040, did a fairly quick fire and got 1 1/2 inch group. That was at 110 yards. I don't know if I can repeat it but I was impressed.

If it's high at 100, then you need this one.

G11 replacement tall 100 yd sight blade | swissproductsusa

The battle sight likely shoot exactly where it is sighted in to... 300m

We had discussion on sight tools, my 1917 won't work (I was off to the left 5 inches or so and it just does not fit)

$15 is downright reasonable.

Did you get the sight moving tool built yet? I can fudge something but nice tools are appreciated as well.

Still working on a design that isn't already out there. We're close. I'll be field testing it next week. It will depend on the barrel as an anchor.

P

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

Commercial PPU ammo is one of my favourites, however I know it isn't very accurate ammo.

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I found PPU to be accurate enough to 20 rounds in a 6 inch plate at 100 yards shooting off hand with my K31... It's not the best ammo but that's still pretty damn good and a testament to the quality of the Swiss rifles.

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Still working on a design that isn't already out there. We're close. I'll be field testing it next week. It will depend on the barrel as an anchor.

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I will follow with deep interest!