Question regarding the other steels used in a Lee Enfield

Hello everyone.

I'm doing research for this story I'm writing, and I found myself needing to know the material specs of the SMLE Mark 3.

And thankfully I found the UR thread that talks about the material specs of the Lee Enfield on the internet on this thread of this website:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13115

Now my question is had all the steels other than the B.S.S.5005/401 been figured out? As in, are their modern equivalents discovered?

What is Steel. D.D.8? What is Steel B.S.S.5005/103?

Please respond.

I have two sets of Spec's on Enfield steel.
S.A.F(Australian) and British O.F, the Oz spec's run from SAF 1 to SAF 11 and give the list of components for each.
The British spec's only give the analysis breakdown and need to be cross referenced against a known listing, such as the SAF series.

In OZ,BSS 5005/401 would equate to SAF No.7, BSS 5005/103 equates to SAF No.1 and DD8 equates to SAF No.7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muffett.2008

I have two sets of Spec's on Enfield steel.
S.A.F(Australian) and British O.F, the Oz spec's run from SAF 1 to SAF 11 and give the list of components for each.
The British spec's only give the analysis breakdown and need to be cross referenced against a known listing, such as the SAF series.

In OZ,BSS 5005/401 would equate to SAF No.7, BSS 5005/103 equates to SAF No.1 and DD8 equates to SAF No.7

---

Is the SAF mentioned here the Sandvik company of Sweden? Or is it an acronym for something else?

Edit:

Is SAF No.7 this ? Sanicro 70 — Sandvik Materials Technology


...and I can't find SAF No. 1 because all the names are changed, I think.

No, SAF is Small Arms Factory (Lithgow, Australia)
OF is Ordnance Factory.....England

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kilopi505

Is the SAF mentioned here the Sandvik company of Sweden? Or is it an acronym for something else?

Edit:

Is SAF No.7 this ? Sanicro 70 — Sandvik Materials Technology


...and I can't find SAF No. 1 because all the names are changed, I think.

---

You are dealing with a time period where there were no international material standards as such.
In addition, steel manufacturers closely guarded their alloying information as trade secrets.

You will not be able to directly cross reference a current material standard to an historic material without access to the historic materials alloy information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

You are dealing with a time period where there were no international material standards as such.
In addition, steel manufacturers closely guarded their alloying information as trade secrets.

You will not be able to directly cross reference a current material standard to an historic material without access to the historic materials alloy information.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muffett.2008

No, SAF is Small Arms Factory (Lithgow, Australia)
OF is Ordnance Factory.....England

---

I see.

Thank you two for the lead and advice. I'll try to send an E-mail to SAF Lithgow Museum and ask.

I will scan the two files I have, I'm sure Badger can find a place for them so others can have access also.

Won't happen until tomorrow though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muffett.2008

I will scan the two files I have, I'm sure Badger can find a place for them so others can have access also.

Won't happen until tomorrow though.

---

Where are you going to post it? Here?

Haven't forgotten, wasted a day trying to get the file to Badger, finally had to break it into parts as it was to big.

If he received it he will post it on the forum somewhere in a day or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muffett.2008

Haven't forgotten, wasted a day trying to get the file to Badger, finally had to break it into parts as it was to big.

If he received it he will post it on the forum somewhere in a day or two.

---

Why not upload something to Mediafire or Dropbox, and then post the link here? That should work to.

Because of its genesis and the era in which it occurred, ALL the steels used in a Mklll / lll* are carbon steels. I'm still looking through a pile of stuff for more details of each brew.

As late as 1938, the No1 Mk111 specifications contained references to the various steels AND their heat-treatment / finish condition. Alloy steels like 4140 and 8620 were pretty much excluded. Component suppliers wishing to use alloy steels had to submit sample billets to the ordnance boffins for approval.

I'd say there is a fair chance that if you run the steel numbers through the old search engine, you may find what you seek.

Unfortunately, I have not yet got my sticky paws on similar data for the Ishapore production or for the No4 / 5 series.

What is apparent is that the "system" changed over the years and a lot more text was to be found on later drawings for later products.

For instance:

On the drawing for the No4 Body, part No. CR 503, last amended / checked 20 Feb 1961!, it notes:

Material - Steel BS 970 En19R OR BS 970 En21R.

One quick search will take you here: BS 970,Â*forÂ*Mechanical and Allied Engineering Steel

Before the days of precision pyrometers and X-Ray crystallography, alloy composition and heat treatment procedures were a bit of a crap-shoot. Because of this, components were "over-engineered" from mostly "predictable" materials.

Badger has these files, they will appear when he's ready.
I could have displayed them piece meal, but they would soon get lost into the archives and eventually disappear as pic files often do.
This way they will be saved as a sticky or tech. bulletin for the use of all users...….just give him time, he's a busy boy.

File is now up as a sticky.:thup: