Has anyone out there experience of shooting with an original Sharps M1863 percussion rifle?
(I guess I needn't hold my breath!)
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Has anyone out there experience of shooting with an original Sharps M1863 percussion rifle?
(I guess I needn't hold my breath!)
Used to shoot a Shiloh sharps. They are as close to original as possible. Does this help? I loaded as original with nitrated cartridges.
Thnaks for replying. I should add that I have a small book on reloading for the modern replicas, but my present challenge is an original. It seems that the replicas all diverge somewaht from the concept of the original with regard to the chamber sleeve and the gas plate.
Can we see some pictures of the breach block etc., Patrick?
That'll have to be after the next photo session.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsimmons
What I acquired was this:
Attachment 94497
- With decidely crusty metal surfaces, and inspector's cartouches almost obliterated by Bubba clamping the rifle in a vice.
Attachment 94498
And if I remove the vice-jaw imprints by steaming, then the cartouches will disappear completely. So the marks will have to stay - for the present.
In short, a rifle which borescope fans would deride as useless. But well-greased BP bullets in military rifles ride happily over rust pits and score marks - as long as these defects are small compared with the bearing surface of the bullet! And, of course, it is a mistake to clean too thoroughly between shots, as this just exposes the rough bits again!
So, having given the Sharps it's "155-year service", and fitted a new backsight, courtesy of Pedersoli, I gave up trying to find anyone who actually shoots an original, and decided to proceed myself - with due caution.
I started with a very cautious 56gn of swiss No. 3 (FFg) at 25 meters. The group was tight enough (about 3") to encourage me to try at 50 meters.
At 50m, the shots were far off off left - so far, that a correction by driving over the backsight in its dovetail (about 4mm!) would have looked grotesque.
However; I now had confidence that the old banger was fully functional, so I raised the charge to 60gn.
This was the result:
Attachment 94499
- and that was all I had time for today. A 2-inch group at 50 meters may not have been quite up to the standards of Hiram Berdan, but it'll do for a start!
I will provide detail photos in a later posting. For the present, please note that this is a genuine C-series New Model 1863, with all markings in the usual locations.
What bothers me is that the pressure plate is a real press fit, almost a driving fit. No distortion or corrosion, just very tight. That is why I would love to hear from someone else who shoots an original - all the modern reproductions seem to have quite freely-moving plates. Which is maybe why such dodges as O-rings have been applied in an effort to reduce gas leakage.
This original system seems to work better than all the repros. I asked two bystanders to observe the block area when I fired, and they could see nothing except the flash of the percussion cap. This, the original tightly fitted system, seems to ensure that with the first shot the plate is driven forwards to seal the gap - and stays there, unlike modern loose-fitting plates.
Furthermore, after about 12 shots, when I took out the breech-block assembly, it was clean of any powder deposits on the sliding surfaces. Oily, of course, but no powder residue.
So it seems that the tight fitting of the original pays off in use. And I suspect that the notorious gas leakage troubles and the various "fixes" for the same are the result of machining to looser tolerances and the avoidance of hand-fitting.
The Shiloh sharps I had had a tight fitting gas check or plate. Not loose fitting at all. I made the longer cartridges out of nitrated paper with ring tailed bullet. When you loaded it, the plate was sharp enough to cut the tail off the cartridge.
I used cooking spray on the breach block and could shoot it all day without cleaning the B.B.
Nice rifle, looks like fun!
"Nice rifle, looks like fun!"
It is indeed! And easier to handle than a muzzle-loader. The group on the target I posted is high at 50m, but I think the sighting may be just about right at 100m. If not, then the front sight blade is pinned, like a Trapdoor, and fairly easy to replace.
OK, not very good photos, but maybe it all helps!
First, the inspectors' cartouches.
Attachment 94503
As you can see, they have almost been obliterated.
Attachment 94504
One can tell that they are indeed cartouches, but they are no longer legible, as it is just about impossible to distinguish between the lines of curly script and the pores of the wood.
Quite impossible to photograph with my equipment, but by turning the stock to-and-fro under good light, the integrating effect of the eye leads me to think that the first letter of the top cartouche is a very curvy I , J or S. If anyone could post photos of good cartouches it would help to improve the guesswork!
As to the breech block here it is:
Attachment 94505
- With the inner, outer and side (cylindrical) surfaces of the gas plate/check.
Attachment 94506
Attachment 94507
Despite the condition of the exposed metal surfaces, these internal surfaces are in excellent condition. Note the fine finish on the cylindrical surface of the plate, and that there is NO slot to insert a screwdriver blade or similar and thus lever out the plate. Which leads me to think that it was not intended that the plate be removed after every shooting session.
Or maybe just a manufacturing oversight?
Anyway, this is a very fine rifle to shoot!
That is exactly how the B.B. was in my Shiloh sharps. I hand stoned the surface until it fit nice and tight, no slop at all and I had to lever it out like yours.
They are a lot of fun aren’t they, I wish I kept mine.
I always wanted to try a real one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
A few days ago, I received a copy of "Civil War Sharps Rifles & Carbines" by Coates & MacAulay.
And found my Sharps New Model 1863 recorded as having being issued to one of the 6th Veteran Volunteers. :dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
OK, maybe not quite the same as a 6 in the lottery, but still a remarkable piece of good luck.
Now I have to learn to shoot it better! At the moment I am struggling with the effort of making paper cartridges and am happy to get all the shots on paper at 100 yards. Decent grouping (i.e. all in the black) is going to take a bit longer.
Remember to wipe your thumb across the top of the block before shooting. Any powder grains residing there, from cutting the paper cartridge, will 'Flash' upon firing.
The sensation on the face is memorable!
I am using the improved version of paper cartridges, without a tail, but with a teabag-paper base. Shot a competition round with it last week, and the block was still free after 14 rounds (1 fouling shot + best 10 out of 13 for score).
And I suspect that I have discovered why my original remains free, and why all the replicas have difficulties with the block siezing up.
That is a great looking Sharps! You were fortunate to find one in as good condition as it is. I have a Reproduction Pedersoli 1859 Sharps. Some day I will try an find me an original Sharps carbine.