SELLING OURSELVES DOWN THE RIVER

Blimey unbelievable..................Private Eye News: HMS Ocean waves bye-bye


The last paragraph is the attempt for the MOD to disband one of the Royal Marine Commandos units by getting rid of their ships Bulwark and Albion and re role their men to serve on one of the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers, as they struggle to find the men and women to serve!!!

These guys at Private Eye always get the inside track under Ian Hislop, and if this is true its an absolute disgrace IMHO They will have to bring back National Service at this rate to fend off any attacks on the nation or NATO!!!

This just goes to prove that the most dangerous animal on earth is an accountant!

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

This just goes to prove that the most dangerous animal on earth is an accountant!

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You saying that brings to mind the love match made in h*ll ---- an accountant and a politician.

Gil,

The REME reserves were battered in cut backs, three Battalions gone...... or will be when the new Battalions are reformed, lot of experience lost due to age, Rank and no space for certain trades......

I was surprised the amount of lads in the Regs who had singed off when I was in Canada, this wasn't just REME...... one lad with us an ex reg, said there was an investigation going on due to amount of lads who had signed off in his last Battalion........

The Army certainly have F....up as a lot of lads who have left the Regs and took the Bonus and joined the Reserves and have been asked if they want to rejoin the Regs with the dangle of a carrot of £15000........

Geoff,
The carrot is still there, thought it was £10K but it begs the question, who is running the Asylum?
I know the new Chief of Staff Nick Carter ( ex Royal Green Jacket) is desperately trying to merge the PARA's with the Royal Marines, and I hope he fails. Luckily he is in an uphill struggle as Prince Charles is our Colonel in Chief.
He doesn't understand the Parachute Regiment budget is under the Army and the Royal Marines under their own budget of the Royal Navy which is absolutely right and more profitable for them to get the kit they require for their specialist role.

Wonder what our American friends who served in either would feel if their DOD tried to merge the Airborne with the Marine Corps?

Gil,

It was £10 K for lads/lasses who were either leaving or had left the Regs and Joined the Reserves, The £15k was to get them back in the Regs, two lads I was with in Canada were dangled the carrot...... as for the money they were ploughing into the reserves that has certainly dried up..........

Certainly agree with you regarding the Para/Marine merge, I've said a few times on here my views on disbanding City and County regiments, the History behind them and there achievements long gone........ and the remnants kept in storage somewhere.

Anyway back to ships, The RFA had about 4 vessels laid up in Camel Lairds, I nearly took a job looking after them, small team of Engineers keeping them in some sort of readiness........ the guy leading the team was an Ex RFA Chief who said it wast the cost of the running the vessels that they were laid up, it was due to not having enough crew to man them....... I was very keen on the job, money was excellent but Lairds only had a contract with the RFA until this year...... that contract was for the refits of all the RFA vessels etc.

Yes, agreed. As I was reminded on PM's by a fellow member, the article fails to tell the complete story and these four ships are due, one delivered this year and four by 2020. So its not all doom and gloom then??

First River-class OPV HMS Forth arrives home | Naval Today

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

asked if they want to rejoin the Regs with the dangle of a carrot of £15000........

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Same around here, guys getting signing bonus' now. Where was this coin when I was reenlisting? There was no money and no hope of any...

Ditto ;)
Here's the Defence Secretary talking to one of his highest Generals about it all......................Cute Chinese baby talking - YouTube

"...Where was this coin when..." In England. Every Canadian government since 1968 has cut defence spending. Mulroney used the Berlin Wall coming down as an excuse. Trudeau the Elder couldn't close and gut Canadian Arsenals fast enough when the C1A1 production ended. Still seem to be enough money to build on base hockey arenas though.

Now we have bonus' though...

Perhaps Mr Trips arse kicking excersise at the next NATO conference might help slightly....

He will certainly demand to know why the likes of Germany spent a little over 1% on defence and as a result they have pretty much ceased to be a credible military power due to funds being starved.

If you think things are bad in the UK, read some of the reports regarding German military availability across all three services ... It's shocking stuff.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Germany spent a little over 1% on defence and as a result they have pretty much ceased to be a credible military power

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I find that shocking considering their past...some must be spinning in their graves...

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Perhaps Mr Trips arse kicking excersise at the next NATO conference might help slightly....

He will certainly demand to know why the likes of Germany spent a little over 1% on defence and as a result they have pretty much ceased to be a credible military power due to funds being starved.

If you think things are bad in the UK, read some of the reports regarding German military availability across all three services ... It's shocking stuff.

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I can imagine the Germans', and probably a few other EU countries', defence plan is something like, 'Well, we are members of NATO, so let's let the Yanks pay for keeping us safe from invasion.'

I was surprised to find out that the NATO payment per country is only 2% of GDP and there are only 8 countries, (the UK being one of them), that are paying their fair share. Canada isn't on the list either. The majority who are paying their fair share are former Eastern Block countries who joined NATO after the wall came down in the 1990's.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

after the wall came down in the 1990's.

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Everyone thought the threat is over, now we're into this other thing...

Sadly, whilst those about us, who sleep peacefully at night and who have never seen an angry man make political decisions, that throw man against man, without a thought or a care, wars will always be with us, regardless of NATO!

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Sadly, whilst those about us, who sleep peacefully at night and who have never seen an angry man make political decisions, that throw man against man, without a thought or a care, wars will always be with us, regardless of NATO!

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Very true Gil. Said it before, but I would make every new prime Minister and President Elect tour the main War grave yards in France as part of their orientation. Just to make sure they really understand the the price that has to be paid, before they send our youngsters off to war.

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Blimey unbelievable..................Private Eye News: HMS Ocean waves bye-bye


The last paragraph is the attempt for the MOD to disband one of the Royal Marine Commandos units by getting rid of their ships Bulwark and Albion and re role their men to serve on one of the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers, as they struggle to find the men and women to serve!!!

These guys at Private Eye always get the inside track under Ian Hislop, and if this is true its an absolute disgrace IMHO They will have to bring back National Service at this rate to fend off any attacks on the nation or NATO!!!

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Agreed that Ian Hislop is usually bang on the money, but regarding HMS Ocean, she was commissioned in 98, built to commercial standards and with a projected service life of 20 years.

She was supposed be first of a class of two, second one never funded.

I would imagine the Brazilian Navy engineering teams aren't exactly thrilled to be taking her on another ageing second hand warship ... Best make sure their mig welders are in good order, they might be needing them!

Bulwark and Albion are a case aside, very capable ships indeed and a serious mistake if they let them go.

The way I read a further article is, that over £60 million was spent on Ocean before she was sold. Probably changing all notices and signage to Portuguese, and threw in new engines as well.

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

The way I read a further article is, that over £60 million was spent on Ocean before she was sold. Probably changing all notices and signage to Portuguese, and threw in new engines as well.

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Surprising how much a refit costs, the actual money spent on the vessel is a fraction of the total cost, its the fees the shipyard charge for dock or floating dock and the fees for the work, a prime example is it cost £10000 just to replace a control room tiled floor I know of, not a big floor area either........

Although you mention the engines Gil, it would of been a huge benefit and bigger seller for the Ocean to replace the Pielstick main engines.......

Marine Engines are ordered in advance of a build, unless the big companies have a few ready to go....... and this is only down to cancelled orders etc.

I only mention that, because I know from recently trying to buy a C130 for our museum. It came as is, flying condition etc but no servicing nothing, just the way it was parked at St Athen ready for sale. Probably sold to a third world country for hauling of cargo.
One careful owner ..................the RAF.

Needless to say all we wanted was a fuselage...................when I think back to the JCB cutters dropping on the Nimrod fuselages up in Scotland five years ago.
There is no ryhme or reason behind anything MOD does, it is totally irrational and wasteful.
I suppose as long as "we" all pay our taxes why should they care!!
I would just love to meet the people who make these decisions on whether to spend to sell or not!!!

Sometimes, acquisition of '.....things' is down to a few phone calls to '.....people'. One of the TA centres round here needed a new range hut for their replacement 25 metre outdoor full and small bore range. There was no money for one, no matter how the purse strings were plucked. That was until had a good idea........ Some of the old Bedford machinery lorries were being withdrawn. And wouldn't you just know it...., the box body, less the thousands of ££££'s worth of machinery, was JUST the ideal size was the suggestion from 'someone in the know'. So the box body was removed, stripped of the machinery, box body taken by the recovery blokes to, er...., where it was needed. Old Bedford lorry, now in chassis and cab configuration sent away for disposal and to this day, nobody was any the wiser. Box body STILL in use today after 25 years of use.

Can't say that this would work for a Hercules but you never know

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Gil,

...Anyway back to ships, The RFA had about 4 vessels laid up in Camel Lairds...

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Hmm? Camel Lairds? Is that a Scots expression for Arabian sheikhs , with their "ships of the desert"?

(Just fun, obviously you meant Cammell Laird)

Peter,
Absolutely, thats what I tried with a direct contact at MOD, by the time she told me they were now up for sale, a company in Romford had sold them............unbelievable, but in tact.
Its not what you know in life its who you know.
All we need is a fuselage doors and rear ramp for the obvious at the museum.
One day we'll get there, the way this lot are going!!!;)

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

. So the box body was removed, stripped of the machinery,

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I can only guess the Machinery may of become a burden and a volunteer or two knew the best way to relocate it.....

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Its not what you know in life its who you know.

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and at the right time too......;)

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

I only mention that, because

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Gil I only mention the engines as I had a quick look at what engines the ocean had.......... Pielsticks !!!!! think of the worst car or car engine you have had and x by 10 it will = a Pielstick. I was very lucky as a ship I joined had not long had 3 of the pielstick generators replaced with 3x B&W Burmeister & Wain generators.......

Even at times we had to start one of the remaining Pielsticks at stand-by and it was always with the fingers crossed..... either the engines for the Ocean were free or someone without the slightest knowledge of Marine Diesel Engines got ripped off by a sales man, then again being the MOD it all becomes clear.....

On sea trials Queen Elizabeth had to return urgently because the engine room was filling with water they couldn't pump out quick enough!! You couldn't write this stuff could you? So all in all we haven't progressed much then over the years.

HMS Queen Elizabeth leak: Navy

At least the new Defence Secretary Williamson has an interest, he is also trying to stop the hounding of soldiers who fought in past campaigns.

On another subject close to the thread. Today the Royal Air Force will fly over London in a massive display, lets hope there are a few more aircraft than they had on the Queens birthday flypast!!!!
Click on the blue plane panel to see whats flying

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