Feeding the Krag

Took my Krag 98 Sporter to the range for only the second time this morning. The ammo I have is Winchester 180 Grain Power Point. When feeding from the magazine, the last cartridge lodges in the side plate against the ramp, but doesn't slide up the ramp. It did this the first time I had it out as well. I was hoping the thorough cleaning and buffing of the ramp I did after the first session would have taken care of the problem. Is there possibly something else going on? Is it the ammo selection? Or do I just need to get more aggressive in my polishing of the ramp?

Is this the one you posted about a while back?
If so, maybe the rim is hanging up in the slot that was left when the cutoff was removed for the installation of the peep sight. You might check that - sometimes the slot was filled in by cutting off the "stem" of the cutoff. This problem is less likely in the 1898 due to the shorter cutoff slot.
Then again, maybe the spring is weak and that's why it's having trouble feeding the last round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rcathey

Is this the one you posted about a while back?
If so, maybe the rim is hanging up in the slot that was left when the cutoff was removed for the installation of the peep sight. You might check that - sometimes the slot was filled in by cutting off the "stem" of the cutoff. This problem is less likely in the 1898 due to the shorter cutoff slot.
Then again, maybe the spring is weak and that's why it's having trouble feeding the last round.

---

Thanks for the info. Yes it is the same one I got a few weeks back.. I will check that out. Would that affect the last round in the magazine differently? All cartridges before the 'last' one load without problem .... and very smoothly I might add. I can see why the Krag has the reputation for an easy bolt that it has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boomer656

Would that affect the last round in the magazine differently?

---

That, I’m not sure of. I could see how that would conceivably be the case. Sort of a combination of hanging up in the cutoff and the magazine spring being near the end of its travel.

The cutoff slot could be filled with a nail of the correct diameter and I have a spring here I’d be happy to send along if you want to try a different one. Just PM me your address if you’re interested.

I'm betting it's because the 180 gr ammo isn't long enough. The originals had a loooong round nose 220 gr. I found nothing but those ran perfectly. Don't be too quick to change the rifle. Try some 220 round nose bullets if you can find them...hornady used to make them.

Thank you both for your idea's on this. I think my next step will be to put one cartridge in and try to verify if it's hanging up on the front or the rear. I'll then add a second cartridge and see how the alignment of the top cartridge changes.

I didn't see any 220 grain ammo commercially available - just 180 grain Winchester and Remington. Hornady didn't have any 220 grain listed currently. I did, on deeper search, find two providers (Black Dog and Ventura Heritage) I'm unfamiliar with that offer 220 grain at premium prices.

If I become convinced that the problem is overall length, I'll probably 'live with it' as I don't plan on doing anything other than range shooting with this rifle. If it looks like it's a mechanical problem, I'll be more inclined to try to solve it.

Again, thank you both for your thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boomer656

220 grain ammo commercially available

---

No, you'll have to load it yourself...or find some older factory for control ammo... I was lucky enough to have a box of several hundred factory ball come to me at a point...so...that's how I had the chance to figure that one out. It's cartridge length and the profile of the bullet steers the cartridge out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boomer656

Again, thank you both for your thoughts.

---

Always a pleasure to talk about Krags. I think they’re my favorite US firearm to fiddle with.
Of course, if I could find Garands for $350 in every other gun store, I’d probably like them the best too haha.

Not many around me here, I've had one of each though...school gun, carbine and rifle. Wish I still had them all.

So I sat outside my camper this morning on an old adirondack chair cycling cartridges in and out of an old rifle. With a good deal of hmmming and haaing and an occasional break to keep the cigar going, I probably made a good picture of Deliverance country.

Anyway, Jim is on the right track. I didn't see any signs of the rim catching on anything. These 3 pictures may help show what is happening.

The first picture shows the top cartridge in the magazine when there are multiple cartridges loaded. When the bolt is closed, the cartridge moves smoothly into the chamber.
Attachment 94520

The second picture shows the magazine with only one cartridge loaded. It's hard to see, but the cartridge seems to be sitting ever so slightly lower.
Attachment 94521

The last picture shows what the cartridge does when the bolt is moved forward. It noses down slightly and the bullet tip plows into the middle of the ramp on the side plate.
Attachment 94522

A jacketed bullet would probably feed better than the lead tipped power point. A longer bullet, as Jim suggested, would get it to the ramp sooner as well. As best I could tell (without a good resource) the length of a 220 grain cartridge is 3.089 inches. The one I measured is 3.035 ... .05 inches would make a world of difference.

Now, having said that, there has to be a lot of people other than me using these cartridges, and I doubt they're all having this problem. Could I be having a problem with the spring in the magazine -- seems stiff enough but I don't have anything to compare it with.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the pictures.
You make a good point that .05” would be quite a difference though, to this point, I’ve used 180 grain off the shelf loads exclusively - Winchester or Remington.
I can’t say I’ve had this problem.
Let me send you that spring. Not sure it’ll help but it’s not doing anything sitting here (haven’t managed to sell it haha). I’d like to satisfy my curiousity anyway.

Boomer:
In your 2nd picture, the cartridge case is more forward than in the 1st picture.

I have never had feeding problems with Remington 180 grain (S.P. bullet) factory loads in my Krags.

I use 168 grain Sierra "Match King" (boat-tailed spitzer) bullets, seated for a 3.080" to 3.087" over-all cartridge length. Cartridge cases are just 'neck-sized' and feed without issues.

You might try another magazine side-plate. A spare 1898 plate sells for about $20; (I am assuming you have a model 1898).

The lobe on the inside of the side-plate makes contact with the case neck, shoulder, and tapered body. It plays a role in guiding the cartridge as it moves forward toward the chamber.

Make sure your side-plate is fully seated against the receiver wall and the side-plate screw is snug. A loose side-plate can cause feed problems. :eek:

Actually, your cartridges look nicely lined up to enter the chamber. I have had some 'failures to feed' with 147 grain GI spitzers. Sometimes, the bullet tip catches on the breech face of the barrel, instead of entering the chamber.

The bullet tip does play a role in feeding the cartridge into the Krag's chamber. The bullet tip makes contact with the inside front-curve of the side-plate and the 'ramp' machined into the inside left-front of the action. These surfaces were designed around the 220 grain RN projectile, but, other projectiles can work satisfactory.

(Note - The Model 1898 side-plate is thicker at the front tendon, (the tongue that inserts into niche machined into action), and does not fit on a model 1896 action. A model 1896 side-plate sometimes finds its way onto a model 1898 action, but, likely won't function properly).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by butlersrangers

You might try another magazine side-plate. A spare 1898 plate sells for about $20; (I am assuming you have a model 1898).

---

I have one of those you can try too. Some deep scratches on the outside but it would at least show ya something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rcathey

...... Let me send you that spring. Not sure it’ll help but it’s not doing anything sitting here (haven’t managed to sell it haha). I’d like to satisfy my curiousity anyway.

---

I think I'll take you up on your offer for the spring. This is the only Krag I've operated, but it doesn't seem right that the cartridge (when there is only one) tips down away from the barrel and more 'square' into the ramp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by butlersrangers

Boomer:
.... You might try another magazine side-plate. A spare 1898 plate sells for about $20; (I am assuming you have a model 1898).

The lobe on the inside of the side-plate makes contact with the case neck, shoulder, and tapered body. It plays a role in guiding the cartridge as it moves forward toward the chamber.

Make sure your side-plate is fully seated against the receiver wall and the side-plate screw is snug. A loose side-plate can cause feed problems. :eek:

Actually, your cartridges look nicely lined up to enter the chamber. I have had some 'failures to feed' with 147 grain GI spitzers. Sometimes, the bullet tip catches on the breech face of the barrel, instead of entering the chamber.

The bullet tip does play a role in feeding the cartridge into the Krag's chamber. The bullet tip makes contact with the inside front-curve of the side-plate and the 'ramp' machined into the inside left-front of the action. These surfaces were designed around the 220 grain RN projectile, but, other projectiles can work satisfactory.

(Note - The Model 1898 side-plate is thicker at the front tendon, (the tongue that inserts into niche machined into action), and does not fit on a model 1896 action. A model 1896 side-plate sometimes finds its way onto a model 1898 action, but, likely won't function properly).

---

All good info .. Thanks. I'll take a closer look at the side-plate. rcathey is sending me another spring to try.

When there is only one cartridge left in the magazine, the bullet doesn't seem to guide properly - and tips down, making a more square approach to the ramp in the side plate. If you look at the left side of the 3rd picture, you can see the cartridge angling down and away. I don't have anything to compare this to, but it doesn't seem 'right'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

No, you'll have to load it yourself...or find some older factory for control ammo... I was lucky enough to have a box of several hundred factory ball come to me at a point...so...that's how I had the chance to figure that one out. It's cartridge length and the profile of the bullet steers the cartridge out.

---

I did find two smaller businesses here in the US that sell their own 220 grain loads - Black Dog Ammunition and Ventura Munitions. If I was going to use this for something other than a 'fun gun', and gave up on trying to fix the feed problem, I'd probably give one of those a try.

Magazine spring and side plate are on their way -- Thank you rcathey very much for that.

Since there was some question about whether or not the side plate on my Krag (98) was possibly from a 96, I figured I'd post some pictures. Unless the only difference between a 96 and a 98 are internal contours, I'm guessing at this point I have a 98 -- it fits like a snug glove. But I have nothing to compare it too, so it could be the problem.

As long as I had it apart I figured I'd post some pictures. If you see something you want a closer look at, let me know.

Your side-plate appears correct for a model 1898 Krag, below (around) serial number 195,000, when the shape of the bevel on the upper rear corner (B) was changed.

The inside of your plate looks like it had a 'high polish'. This eventually was discontinued (around 145K, per Joe Poyer).

The front lip on your side-plate (A) should measure around .150" to .155" thick for an 1898 plate. If it measures .130", it is a model 1896 plate.

Maybe it's just me or an illusion, but, something doesn't look quite right about your follower/carrier-arm.

Attachment 94529

1st photo showing model 1899 Krag (follower/carrier-arm) cam and spring engagement. 2nd photo shows tip of carrier-arm, that plays an important role in lifting and feeding the last cartridge in the magazine.

Attachment 94530
Attachment 94531

I came across a thread on another forum (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/.../t-929995.html) from several years ago that describes the same problem I'm having. They also concluded the spring was likely the problem. Unfortunately there is no confirmation in that thread that replacing the spring solved the problem.

Range of motion of follower/carrier-arm and spring strength and action are easily checked.

The curved flat spring puts tension on the magazine-gate, as well as, powers the carrier-arm by bearing on its cam. The magazine-gate works firmly. The carrier-arm requires only moderate spring tension, but, should move and compress smoothly.

Compare your assembly with posted photos. Follower and tip of carrier should be shaped and project as the ones in photo. The tip of the carrier plays a significant role in lifting and feeding the last cartridge in the magazine. (The 'earlier' cartridges ride on the cartridge behind them).

Photo shows an original .30 U.S. Army 'last round' in magazine.

Attachment 94538

I think the key is that the "final push" on a round varies. The first four are being "pushed" by a cartridge - which is not exactly the same shape as the follower. The fifth round is located solely by the follower which must present a slightly different line of contact to the round about to be chambered. This could/would present enough of a different 'tilt' to cause the "different than designed for" bullet shape to come into play. The difference must be very slight because some rifles feed 180gr. bullets and others don't. The army didn't care, because the round the gun was designed for fed flawlessly - barring damaged parts. Off the bench, you can single load. In normal hunting, you should be fine, as the deer is supposed to be down within four shots (chuckle!) but if hunting something dangerous (feral hogs for example) you'd want to be sure that EVERY round will feed EVERY time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dick Hosmer

I think the key is that the "final push" on a round varies. The first four are being "pushed" by a cartridge - which is not exactly the same shape as the follower. The fifth round is located solely by the follower which must present a slightly different line of contact to the round about to be chambered. This could/would present enough of a different 'tilt' to cause the "different than designed for" bullet shape to come into play. The difference must be very slight because some rifles feed 180gr. bullets and others don't. The army didn't care, because the round the gun was designed for fed flawlessly - barring damaged parts. Off the bench, you can single load. In normal hunting, you should be fine, as the deer is supposed to be down within four shots (chuckle!) but if hunting something dangerous (feral hogs for example) you'd want to be sure that EVERY round will feed EVERY time.

---

Exactly right!!
In my case I will be using this rifle to hunt the ever dangerous paper target.

Paper-Cuts are scary!

I received a spring and side plate, courtesy of rcathey, today. There was an obvious difference between the spring that I received and the one that I had been using (I couldn't detect any difference other than cosmetics in the side plates).

Attachment 94550

The spring rcathey sent is on top. You can see the right end of the spring has a different profile. The spring also measures .1mm longer. My guess is they started out the same 120 years ago, and the one in my 98 has had a bit more wear.

Anyway, after installing the replacement spring, the last cartridge in the magazine now loads as you would expect. Problem solved. Thank you rcathey for the materials.

Hell yeah!
That’s what it’s all about!!
Very happy to hear.

Now we can focus on paper and staple cuts!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by butlersrangers

Now we can focus on paper and staple cuts!

---

Staple guns .... for the home and range.