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Can you ID the magazine on the right in both these pictures. Mag in question is an inch straight 30. Its not a one off. They come 12 to a crate and they are all the same. They wont fit in a metric rifle but lock up fine in an inch rifle
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pse0cbbujb.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e0cbbujb-1.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pspvs80m5n.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pvs80m5n-1.jpg
No markings of any kind?
no markings.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
has flat spring and silver follower
Rhodesian perhaps?
They are L2 or C2 magazines which have been modified to fit into a metric FN FAL.
Presumably they worked in the specific rifle it was fitted for.
In your first photo you can see the original "footprint" of the front lug.
Is the case a L4 bren box?
That's my thinking too, they fit whatever they were modified to go into...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
The box was a bren box thats properly modified to hold C2 magazines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
They do not fit in any metric FAL. They lock up properly in inch receivers but not as tight as an Aussie L2 mag
Thats the bit thats hard to explain. As far as I can ascertain they have been in storage/possession of one individual since 1960 up until they changed hands 3 times in the last month. Considering the C2 and L2 never went into production until 1962 and the first L4 was 1958 (excluding trials) could these be from early development of the L2/C2? I cant remember where I read that the L4 was hard on magazines and would spit out the magazine after shearing the lug off and the lug had to be beefed up to prevent this. Now up until the L4 came into existence and caused the redesign of the front lug what did the original lug look like?Quote:
Presumably they worked in the specific rifle it was fitted for.
I'm a little confused with your FN C1 date information:
The initial 2000 trials production Ex1/Ex2 rifles (metric FAL) were ordered from FN in June 1953 with delivery starting in Jan-March 1954.
The magazine lugs were finalized in 1954-1955 with the first serial production at CAL (not toolroom trials) C1 rifles being manufactured in 1956.
The CAL manufactured C2 trials guns were in production by 1958.
Ex1/L4a1 share the "metric FAL" magazine designe interface.
C1/C2/L4A2 share a common (C1/L1) magazine interface.
L4 7.62 magazine cases are converted .303 Bren magazine cases...
Can you post photos of the rear latch area and base plates of these magazines?
All the production dates I got from wikipedia. The back and bottom are exactly the same as other C2 magazines.
I will post more pictures tonight.
Part of our problem here, I knew they were out of whack but not that far out...not worth relying on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr E
I wonder if they have been modified to fit into an X10 or L4A1 Bren gun.
I'm hoping the photos of the bottom plate and rear lug answer the questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps1li6y79r.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1li6y79r-1.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psfykejjoc.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fykejjoc-1.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psqebiushz.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...qebiushz-1.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psbg7swmqq.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bg7swmqq-1.jpg
The pictures confirm that they are C2/L2 mags which have been modified.
The circular plate it to ensure the proper feeding angle in the C2, and the external flanges for the floor plate attachment prove the history of the mag.
As to what it's been modified for ???
The metric FAL and inch C1/L1 latch position is actually the same - ie, metric mags should function in an inch receiver.
I wonder if it would match a simpler bren conversion with no machining of the front latch area ?? The height of the front latch has been lowered to a point which as the OP points out it shouldn't work in an FN FAL.
Does the transit box have any markings?
I dont think they were made then modified. The lug base is dimensionally different to the C2 lug.
There are no visible markings on the box. The outside of the box is in poor condition with most of the green paint flaked off exposing red primer. There is more red than green
T48E1?
Interesting thought MrE, but I can't think of a good reason to backwards convert the magazine for a then old trials piece...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr E
Help me put these events in chronological order.
The making of the 7.62 SLR and 7.62 bren gun magazines.
From what I have read the bren gun was made to be compatible with the SLR. I also read the Mag bottom was changed from the metric style to what is now the standard inch style to stop the mags from being able to be inserted int the bren gun the wrong way. Then I read that the bren would spit out the mag with the metric style lug so a new bigger lug was designed. So this information brings forth some questions. If the L1A1/C1A1/SLR magazine had the big lug and big base plate from the very start why did the bren not have the same? The way it looks to me is that the modifications for the bren gun were incorporated into the SLR as they developed.
So which came first the SLR version or the L4 version of the magazine?
Are you sure your information is accurate. I just found some Canadian 20 round mags with the same small lug. Production date Aug-1960. Info on box is 1005-21-150-5286 case qty-1Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Those would be interesting to see...
Are they the same? In the same position?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr E
Canada had 1700 Ex1 and 300 Ex2 (metric FAL) rifles in service, the survivors of which were used as airborne jump guns (and cadet rifles longer) into the 1980s.
lug is totally identical and these still dont fit into a metric gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Those I saw, both. The cadet rifles in Victoria were still held by RQ until about 1984, they were complete. That year they disappeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Seems these were made in Canada prior to 1958. I have found 20 round mags and 30 round mags. So far I found that Century may have brought them to the US from Canada in the late 80's to early 90's.
Still cant find a reason why the DND made these and why they have the same NSN as standard mags.