303 H/S gauges

Posted by nijaninja ~ A WTB - .303 Field and Go Headspace Gauge and MLE Rear Volley Sight
Seems that its a pain to get headspace gauges in Australia.

I had a machinist mate turn up 3 brass ones all for a carton of beer I have him an empty case so he could get the taper.(They are within +- .000.5")
He made me up 3 see pic .064" - .067" - .074" don't ask about the .067" one you only need 2 .064 & .074 forget the .070 as thats what the good folk here on this site say from experience.
I always drop the mag & feed the gauge up under the extractor claw rather than putting it into the chamber and forcing the claw over the rim saves the claw & stops damaging the brass as well.

I used to stock excellent quality MoD spec HS gauges from Arrowmark Tool and Gauge in Australia. I still have a set on my bench, .064, .067, (Vickers MMG gauge), and .074. He might try contacting Graham over there to see if he has any left or can make some more. They were expensive in the eyes of some, (not me), and I think that's why he pretty much quit making them. There are cheap coin gauges available here in the USA but they are useless IMHO. Long story.

Hey cinders, I figured I might as well ask here before bothering any of the fitting and turning mates I have about it.

Brian, I found a few places overseas that stock them for decent prices, but it seems the shipping over here is very excessive. I don't know this Graham fellow yet, but if he has any I would be willing to at least talk to him about it if nothing shows up this side of the sea. Just that I have a few old .303's now that I really am dubious about shooting, and a set for the future really couldn't hurt since I plan on getting more.

With regards to getting more Nijal, any addition we get for our licenses here in the West we have to obtain a serviceability certificate from the fire arms dealer where the weapon is being held which would includes a H/S & bore check as if they do not do that and the thing goes up they are/could be held accountable for such a disaster depending on the circumstances of such an event so its in their best interest to do the checks correctly.
Oh! they have to charge you $50.oo for the certification which puts an additional cost + Govt charges up to $240 for the addition as without that certificate the Police Firearms branch will not license the weapon.....Yay! Go the Government (oops sorry Badger!)

It's not just the "fitting and turning".

PROPER gauges are VERY hard so that they do not distort with use. Thus, they are usually finished on a precision surface grinder.

If you are doing production work, you should have Master gauges for your HS gauges. If, like most of us mortals, you only use them, carefully, a couple of times a year and store them correctly, YOU will expire LONG before your gauges will.

Being VERY hard is also why you treat them gently, especially by NOT dropping them on concrete workshop floors, thus causing chunks to be broken off the extractor rim.

Gauges for rimmed types have a rim or else they would be pointless. Many headspace gauges for rimless rounds have NO extractor "rim" and a reduced rear diameter section so that they do not damage the extractor and reduce the influence of extractors and (spring-loaded) ejectors.

NEVER insert ANY headspace gauge in the chamber and then slam the bolt shut; you will probably damage your extractor, for a start. Slide it up under the extractor and close the bolt GENTLY and FEEL the resistance of bolt handle closure. Lee Enfield (and M-17 / P-14) actions have HELICAL locking and this can exercise a lot of force during the closure of the bolt. No more than gentle finger pressure is required. This applies to semi / full autos as well. Open-bolt SMGs are in a world of their own.

Best practice is to remove the extractor before gauging to eliminate any extraneous forces from the process.

"...get the taper..." That doesn't matter. It's the thickness of the rim that matters. An original one is just the rim with enough "case body" to hold onto. No taper involved.
Like Bruce_in_Oz says, headspace gauges are precision instruments.
"...headspace gauges for rimless rounds have NO extractor "rim"..." None that I've ever seen. They always have an extractor groove.
"...pain to get headspace gauges in Australia..." That because your government doesn't want you to have 'em?

Look up Arrowmark Tool and Gauge Pty Limited in Queensland like I said. Tell Graham I sent you and if he has a spare set, I'm sure he'll fix you up. The reason he stopped marketing them and his other precision Lee Enfield tools is because potential buyers were too cheap to pay the prices. I imported and sold his tools to serious folks for several years including milspec bolt disassembly tools and others, all superb and worth the price. I wish the HS manufacturers, (Clymer and Forster), here in the USA would make them to MoD specification but they won't. I went through the same thing with Sierra bullets trying to get them to produce a .311 diameter .303 projectile that's a Mk.7 equivalent for reloading. They are missing the boat IMHO because the SMK won't perform in original rifles that have above average service use with cordite, (all discussed at length here before). There is a market for these items and the projectiles and it will only increase as the popularity of these old rifles continues to increase and the ammo they are designed for dries up.

Cinders, you do have to love how they clamp down on gun laws so much more than smoking and alcohol which cause so many more deaths.

Bruce, I was not aware the gauges were so rigid and prone to being damaged. With this info I might save myself some money of replacing a set hopefully cheers.

Sunray, you would be correct in saying that. If they can bother you about anything gun related they will. Very discouraging to new shooters.

Brian, awesome, thank you very much for the contact, and in regards to quality and how they last I will hopefully keep this as long as I live, so price isn't too much of a big deal. Thank you very much.

Good luck. Hopefully he can help out. I feel the same way about precision tools and gauges. They will last a lifetime + with proper care.

Regarding "service" gauges for rimless types:

In the "good old days", many "rimless" HS gauged had partial "extractor rims". Often a section was ground away so that the spring-loaded ejector was not in play.

Most of the 5.56 and 7.62 "issue" ones I have seen in the last decade or two have only partial rims or more so in recent years, NO rim. They are generally slightly undersized in body diameter so that the just fall out of any decent chamber. The are only measuring from the face of the bolt to the chamber shoulder, anyway.

Then there are the HS and "timing" gauges for the Browning machine guns. The adoption of the "Quick Change Barrel" on the Big Fifty model has brought about more changed on the last decade or so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunray

"...pain to get headspace gauges in Australia..." That because your government doesn't want you to have 'em?

---

I doubt it. They make life painful, but I don't think any of the relevant people are armourers or would know what a headspace gauge was.

Most people in Government here in OZ would fail the NOGO …….maybe we had better ZF the lot:rofl:

Most people in government would tell you that a pistol and rifle are the same thing.

I concur Muffett.................:thup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

I used to stock excellent quality MoD spec HS gauges from Arrowmark Tool and Gauge in Australia. I still have a set on my bench, .064, .067, (Vickers MMG gauge), and .074. He might try contacting Graham over there to see if he has any left or can make some more. They were expensive in the eyes of some, (not me), and I think that's why he pretty much quit making them. There are cheap coin gauges available here in the USA but they are useless IMHO. Long story.

---

. Brian, I did contact Graham in Australia. Sorry to say they no longer mak the .303” gauges. Sam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roccosimone

Sorry to say they no longer mak the .303” gauges. Sam

---

And no spare ones?

Thanks for that Sam. It's a shame as they were first class. The bolt tool was also excellent and exactly the same as the military variant. There have been many commercial attempts to produce a proper bolt tool and most are junk.

You might try Apex Gun parts in the USA. They had some originals listed a while back. All you really need is the .074 No-Go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Thanks for that Sam. It's a shame as they were first class. The bolt tool was also excellent and exactly the same as the military variant. There have been many commercial attempts to produce a proper bolt tool and most are junk.

You might try Apex Gun parts in the USA. They had some originals listed a while back. All you really need is the .074 No-Go.

---

Sorry B D I disagree you need both .064 & .074 to tight is just as bad as to loose. Also there is more variation in rim thickness now and a much greater variation in the composition of the brass being used now in the commercial world. Batching cases to a rifle is more critical now.

I agree with you. My point was not too clearly stated. The .064 GO gauge can be purchased directly from Forster and Clymer for around $25-$30. It's the same specification as SAAMI. The .074 No-Go is the difficult one to find. That being said: Unless someone has fooled with a service rifle post service, chances of finding a rifle that's too tight are pretty slim over here. I've checked hundreds both here in the shop and out at shows for people and that's my limited experience. If you're breeching up a new barrel, you definitely need both.

I looked at APEX Gun Parts and unfortunately the .074 gauges are sold out so we're back to square one.

It's not much better here in the States... I picked up a set from Oakie gauges, but I think they're SAAMI specs. Sadly I think the gentleman who made them passed away.

Border Ballistics Technologies will make them for you, just tell Geoffrey exactly what size of head space gauge you want.

BBT

I don't like coin gauges. I've had too many folks send rifles here that were supposedly out of spec when checked with them and when I check again with proper milspec gauges, there's nothing wrong. Of course, we have a saying in the South: "operator failure". I'm guessing that's more the problem than the gauges themselves.

Serious folks should contact BBT as Simon has said and get a real one made.

Apparently BBT will only sell to licensed gunsmiths or dealers, of which I am neither yet. I am hoping this only applies to their reamers and not the headspace gauges, but I'll ask anyway.

Try Brownells Australia heres the links;
FORSTER GO, 303 BRITISH HEADSPACE GAUGE | Brownells Australia $47.33 +GST + Postage
FORSTER NO GO, 303 BRITISH HEADSPACE GAUGE | Brownells Australia $47.33 +GST + Postage

I hate to resurrect this thread but for the sake of those who still want a place to get their gauges: Geoff at BBT is the man for the job. Both gauges for what I call reasonable and in good time. I've tried my two nicer guns and both check out (just).

ANYONE wanting Headspace .303 gauges should talk to Geoff.

Hope this puts this whole shebang to rest properly.

I think you will find that .30-40 Krag shares the exact same "Go / No go' gauging of .064" / .074".

Being gauges for rimmed cartridges, they will have short bodies and be thus interchangeable between .303 and .30-40; not only serving those two chamberings, but pretty much any wildcat derived from them.

Common US gauges for .303 or .30/40 are .064" Go, .067" No-go, .070" Field. Only the "Go" is useful for inspecting arms in service. The "No-go" is good for installing new barrels and the .070" "Field" is simply useless.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/jfgqs1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/image/gif;b...1Ygi3YfQoIAAA7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

I agree with you. My point was not too clearly stated. The .064 GO gauge can be purchased directly from Forster and Clymer for around $25-$30. It's the same specification as SAAMI. The .074 No-Go is the difficult one to find.

---

At least at one point, Forster would make an .074" field gauge to order for a nominal fee. Not sure if that is still the case.