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I have found an Enforcer on GunBroker here in the US. The seller states that it is the last known enforcer serial number, 767. He states that it's a Charnwood assembled rifle, that he got from Tony Hallams personal collection. From photos I've received it appears to check out, but the action is a mk1/3 Savage. I'm unsure of what the actual value would be and whether or not it's worth the money. Any help would be appreciated!
Can you post a link?
Go to gunbroker.com and do a search on Enforcer. And there she is! Nice!!
It’s legit. Purchased and Imported via Canada by BDL LTD. Left over from a 1998 Bonhams auction of John Hallum’s, (Tony’s son), personal collection along with several other Charnwood Ordnance rifles.
So it is a legit Enforcer then Brian? That makes me feel much better about making an offer and or purchase.
Nice wood on that one.
767 certainly wasn't assigned to a Force, so may have little use, but certainly looks genuine from the pictures on Gunstar provided.
I own Enforcer 158, the Pecar Berlin scope is serial numbered to the rifle. Was this standard practise as the one in this thread does not appear to carry the rifle serial number?
Sadly, when the rifles were ordered many Forces had their own scopes already so it is a bit of a mish mash I'm afraid. Nice to see one paired up like yours.
I take it you know where it hailed from?
Interesting that he says it's built on a No.4 Mk 1/3 action, not a 1/2. But there is no photo of the bolt side to verify. Weren't most sniper and 7.62 conversions built on Mk. 1 type actions?
An interesting question, I don't know what police force it was issued to but I do know some of its history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
When I got it it and several others had been through Parker Hales hands and it had been converted to their T4 configuration with the heavy target barrel and T4 wood work but no target sights just the scope. It still had its numbered action bolt and scope so I decided to get it back to the correct configuration.
I found a gunsmith who had a correct and as new barrel so that was fitted and sent for proof, I was also able to find a complete set of wood work from Enforcer 207, so I can only assume that that rifle is no more.
It is now complete with its Harris Bipod and the correct PH5E4 target sight, its not an original rifle but as so few of them were made and even fewer survive it was worth the effort to get it back in one piece.
I spoke to the RFD who originally sold the rifle many years ago and he seems to remember having at least three of them in the PH T4 configuration, he also says that he remembers up to nine being converted in a similar way and wonders if PH were trying to update the Enforcer but had no luck in convincing the powers that be as none appear to have been used which is why they all appeared onto the open market.
---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------
The Enforcer was not a sniper rifle it was to be issued to Police Marksmen (I don't think there were any women if there were I apologise), the Police Marksmen were very good but they were not and did not like to be called snipers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigwagon
Last line Buccaneer. No....... They LIKED to be called snipers but, alas, they were just good shots. There is a vast difference
Ha Ha Buccaneer....................you have learnt the Peter Laidler and Gil Boyd lesson, Police lads were indeed "Marksman" not snipers, as they would like to be called!!.
It was only in latter years that many attended Sniper courses due to pressure from the ex service influence joining the Police to do so, but nevertheless, the courses were constructed completely differently to the Army courses for good reason and the applications civvy Police were constructed under Home Office Guidelines and run by Devon & Cornwall Police. (RM influence) thats why many ended up poor shots lol (ex PARA joke)
Your rifle 158 was one of mine in Cambridge Police issued on the 23rd of August 1974. It was probably handled by me at our Police HQ, the newly built Hinchingbrooke Park HQ and sorted and sold as cast, as we had too many when all the old Boroughs and Cities became Cambridgeshire Constabulary from the old Mid Anglia and other areas within what is now Cambridgeshire.
1974 was certainly a busy year in terms of Enforcers, we pooled them in from Ely City Police/Mid Anglia Police/Cambridge City/Cambridge County/Huntingdonshire County/City of Peterborough/Soke of Peterborough so they were all (17) on merit and usage sorted and selected for continuance in service.
The only ones I have recorded fitted with scopes were those 3 sold to Mid Anglia Force on the 3rd April 1974, so it goes to show not all had Pecar scopes on them or were not tied to a specific rifle at the time.
It was sad to see the end of such a great "Force" but Cambridgeshire it was, and still is, with more Firearms trained officers now than what you can shake a stick at.
I do remember Suffolk Police were also well blessed with Enforcers as were the Met.
The gold cup has to go to Abu Dhabi Police who bought 30 odd and it would be interesting to see where they all ended up, as well as Hongkong Police who bought a similar number.
My records stop at 767 so one has to realise it was a sort after rifle of the time and for good reason in 7.62!!
Well at least with the info in this thread it makes me feel more confident about the rifle. Still have to see if funds will allow me to purchase and bring her home.
Go for it, the value daily increases on this rifle that only a few were produced. They are an investment.;)
I seem to recall something about 3 of them built on the No. 4 Mk1* receiver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigwagon
Some of them did attend MoD 'inspired' courses as Gil says, but there weren't many (sorry to disagree a bit there Gil.....). Also it was a bit of a money spinner as their forces paid a lot of money for their attendance.
Back in the late 70's I was first taught to shoot at a Met Police run small bore club, by a Met.Police D6/D11 instructor who had been the first to operationally deploy a Met Police Enforcer during the Balcombe Street Siege. Forty years on though I can't remember if he was one of the original cadre of D6 Instructors that were trained by the Army at Small Arms Wings of School of Infantry in the late 1960's, and my father is no longer around to ask confirmation.
The police were very difficult people to teach firearms according to those who did. Generally, they simply 'taught the teachers' in such things as I recall, the baton gun and the like. Their doctrine was totally different and as such, the aggression that was needed when live fire was required was said to be, er....., found wanting. Nothing wrong with that in the normal course of events but when the going gets tough .......... The same applied to ex soldiers that were now cops I hasted to add simple because they'd returned to a non aggressive environment - and as a result were a bit older too. Not just older, but wiser too. And maybe it shouldn't be said but in the Army you were always surrounded by your close pals when things got tough
Geeram,
As Peter will bear out, the Police did some strange things when the "Powers at Be" thought they should be more than they were.
I am going to speak from both sides of the fence.
If you have been there, you will instantly recognise in the new breed of Police Firearms Officers, whether they were in the Military before hand, when you watch them on TV at major incidents such as we have all seen recently in London.
Its a strange thing, but you will recognise those who are wary of their opponents before rushing in, and there will be those who perhaps haven't seen an agree man with a firearm before, or an explosive trigger in his hand!!
For the Small Arms School to be "forced" into training Police Officers in the art of sniping in those early days of the Enforcer, I would hazard a guess it was hard. As you don't know who you are getting, where in the Army, the first prerequisite was, you had to be able to shoot, and well, and your unit documents would state that, and also you would have attended a selection cadre before hand.
None of these were given to Warminster. They expected a Police Officer could shoot and shoot well. Sadly, the service "Shot themselves in the foot" there!!!:confused:
From memory, all the original cadre of applicants for the first Met Firearms team that were sent to the Small Arms School, were either ex-mil or experienced civilian shooters at least, but I believe almost all were ex-mil, as was a requirement for application....which given D6 was setup in response to the shooting of the 3 x officers at Braybrook Street in Aug 1966, quite a large percentage of Met Offiers with a reasonable length of service had been in the services. In the immediate aftermath of the Braybrook St shooting, the search for the suspects involved lots of searching of green belt land and farmland on the outskirts of the Met district west and north-west of London, mostly using dogs, and as such involved my late father who was a Met Dog Handler at the time. In those days each station had a gun safe with half a dozen Webley revolvers for issue in circumstances that required firearms, and were usually only issued to officers that were ex-mil, and thus those few weeks in Aug 1966 during those searches for Roberts, Duddy & Witney was the only time my father, as a WW2 ex-Army vet, carried a firearm in his Police service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
I can still remember my Mum's 'fear' during those weeks, every time Dad went on duty up until Roberts and co were captured.
Yes agreed. In those early days of my service, I had a lone GSM when my colleagues were brissling with WW2 rows of medals, however, many had had enough of guns by the time they came into the Police for the next 30 years of their lives after 1945!!
I had predominantly ex military in 74 apply, but as you say the safe with dirty pistols and rifles in there was evident right across the country. In the 60's the Met were looked at as the premier Force, and as such ANY county force who had a murder, the Met sent a senior CID officer to kick off the enquiry.
The County Forces even then were looked at as second class investigators, with the arrogance of "The Police Service started in the MET so we are the best" syndrome.
The wake up call came when the IRA kicked off in earnest and the Met found themselves too busy to carry on with that attitude.
County Forces set themselves up so they were totally independent and self trained, and thats where we were at with the deployment with Enforcers as you have probably gleened.
It was a poor show, and I too had to decide whether it was for me having wielded weapons around for long enough, but I was probably the best qualified.
I knew of one other, a good friend, Mike E****** who was ex 22, he joined Norfolk Police and within a short time was promoted to Inspector and set out to start an accomplished Firearms Team, and a good job he did of it too. So you can see, those early days were an absolute mess, long before any of the well known massacres that occurred at Hungerford/Dunblame etc:(
My father definately fell into that category, although his Army service continued post war with a 12 month tour in Palestine in '46/47 and Z Reserve status into the early 50's which included a return to uniform for a 2-week refresher camp during the Korean War.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
However, give him a No.4 and his eyes light up if he could drill with it.........even into his early 70's he could still do a perfect rifle drill routine with a No.4 :thup:
Have many happy memories from the late 1970's of being in the amusing company of one of Dad's fellow Met Dog Handler's who was ex-22.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Getting back to this rifle, so it's a rifle made of Enforcer parts, put together by Charnwood Ordnance, not Enfield and never issued as an Enforcer to a Police Force? A bit like a mismatched 4T? Does it command the same premium as an issued Enforcer put together by Enfield?
Roy W I wouldn't say it's like a mismatched T. It is an enforcer, just assembled elsewhere really. The parts are all from enfield, since Charnwood bought most of the lot. So it's really just an unissued Enforcer.
And documented by Mark Stevens as the last serial number produced. I had three that were assembled by Charnwood Ordnance many years ago. They were all as new condition as that one is and obviously never issued to any police forces. All were without bases, rings and telescopes. I kept that one in my personal collection for a while and then moved it on. I never fired it. It is what it is.
Roy W,
I refer you to my entry at #8. Its worth every penny of an Enforcer, just because it wasn't issued, but produced to sell is immaterial. Its part of the family and should command a good price IMHO.
All the specialised forms of the Lee line are getting up there now might say a steady rise from the WWI sniper rifles the HT's & T's the L42 and Enforcer so one should say this one being the last of them one would hope in un-issued condition may go well above the $5K start bid.
At auctions we have all seen it stuff that should get allot of $'s doesn't and stuff that shouldn't goes through the roof be interesting to follow this one.
all good stuff to know, cheers
Auction ended. No bids.
I've just noticed that No. 705 has just been listed for sale in the UK.
Link to 705 sale?
Very recently listed as not full ad with pictures yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by snipershot1944
http://www.highwoodclassicarms.co.uk/index.htm
Also Enforcer 059 for sale in the UK.
https://thedevizesgunsmith.co.uk/rif...ce-and-sniper/
That rifle at Devizes is really nice. 3250 GBP or about $4100 USD.
Interesting to have three Enforcers for sale at one time.
The enforcer did not sell but I messaged the seller actually quite often. He seemed very knowledgable about the rifle and offered me first shot at the rifle once I raise up funds. An interesting rifle with lots of history that I soon hope to own.
Simon,
At Highwood Classics has had his up for sale for a few weeks now. Good price too.
The Dollar is very strong at the moment, a good time for US to buy in the UK
Now that makes a change................and good. No doubt Mr Trump will say its all down to him!!
Nice to have a choice for a change..........Richards at Devizes and Simon at Highwood Classics.................spoilt for choice if you want one at the moment!!
Might be a good time to help those Enforcers emigrate.
Richard has had that for sale for at least 9 months now....I suspect the mention of a little wear in the throat has kept it from selling, as any he has had before have sold pretty quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by snipershot1944
I've came across two "enforcers" for sale online, one is numberd 159, and the other looks like 756 or 763, these made up of parts? Or issued to a force?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste0979
159 was delivered to Glasgow Police on 8th May 1974
Glasgow Police purchased 44 Enforcers and No 159 was the 19th rifle delivered.
Both 756 and 763 were never assembled by PH and the parts were sold off at auction by Enfield.
Parts were made up to be completed rifles but it was done by whichever dealer bought the 'job lot of parts'.