When I was on the Great War battlefields recently......

I was lucky enough to be able to go with a small party of people to look round one of the subterranean tunnel systems under the village of Bouzincourt. This little village, just north of Albert, was just behind the British lines during the fighting on the Somme. Most of the villages had tunnel systems dating back to the middle ages, many of which were used & enlarged by the Royal Engineers during the fighting. This particular system bears truly HUGE amounts of graffiti, much of it Canadian. This one particular chap's scratchings caught my eye, as, yes, he was a sniper in the 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles. I'm not sure how well it will show up in the photo, as it was taken under rather less than ideal conditions, but hopefully it will be at least in part legible & of interest. I haven't checked as yet, but wonder if sniper Alex McRae survived?

Incidentally, there were still ration tins & clips of 303 ammo down there. (And we were on our honour to leave them there, too!).

They are great those pieces that these lads left behind in whatever form, in the knowledge that their days were numbered, and in the hope that someone in the years to follow would find the writings on the wall.

Sadly, if I may Roger as I work with the CWWG Commission on a weekly basis, let you know what happened to Private 117400 A MCRAE of the 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion.

He was killed on Sunday the 28th October 1917 and is buried in Grave C28 Passchendaele New British Cemetery XVI.
If you would like a copy of his commemoration certificate I attach a link and where you can find it to print it off at the base:

Casualty

Cheers for looking Gil. I use the CWGC site myself as well, but hadn't got round to trying to track him down. Another tragedy for a family somewhere, as every death was.
Survive the Somme & fall a year later........

Roger,
As per PM if its of interest, can probably dig out how he died.

Grateful for anything you can get, as would the others be, I'm sure. Please post if you find out any more....

Great image Roger, it's amazing how someone's simple writing on a tunnel wall can convey so much emotion to those of us (everyone here I am sure) who care to stop our busy lives for five minutes and reflect...

Lest we forget.

Any additional information would be much appreciated Gil

I wonder if he was a survivor of Ypres also, as I know many Canadian units were cycled through there. Sad to think he wrote this more than a century ago, and that no one today knows how he actually died. I've done enough reading to know that most snipers who were detected were either countersniped, or a machine gun was trained on suspected hides and then a burst was fired, or an arty strike was called in. Or, he was just an unlucky victim of the tremendous number of random bullets floating around almost constantly, or a barrage, or perhaps he was on patrol or with his unit going over the top when he got it. WWI seemed to be the randomest of wars when it came to getting killed.

Here's another one that never fails to move me. Raised up on a low hill just to the south of the main Albert to Peronne road is a small CWGC cemetery called 'The Devonshires Cemetery', or sometimes, referred to after the clump of trees present there, 'Mansell Copse Cemetery'. The stone shown in the photo shows the inscription that was found written on a wooden cross after the 8th & 9th Devons' catastrophic attack on 1st July. The two battalions attacked together & were decimated. Later on, the padre & survivors buried the fallen in what had been their jumping off trench. One of the officers, Captain Duncan Martin had foreseen that unless the artillery barrage was very heavy & very precise, the attacking battalions would be at great risk from a dug in (sited in the corner of a local civilian cemetery in Mametz, known as 'The Crucifix') German machinegun that enfiladed no mans land across which they had to advance. He even made a plasticine model of the topography to show to more senior officers. His concerns were overruled, & the advance went ahead as planned. He was correct; he fell, & he is now buried in that same cemetery with many of his fellow officers, NCO's & men. The war poet, Lt William Noel Hodgson MC, who completed his best known poem 'Before Action' only three days before 1st July, also fell & is buried there. The last verse of his poem reads:

I, that on my familiar hill
Saw with uncomprehending eyes
A hundred of thy sunsets spill
Their fresh & sanguine sacrifice
Ere the sun swings his noonday sword
Must say good-bye to all of this;-
By all delights that I shall miss,
Help me to die, O Lord.



'The Devonshires held this trench. The Devonshires hold it still.'

I don't mind admitting I regularly shed a tear when visiting these places - these Silent Cities.

Library and Archives Canada has now scanned ALL of the soldiers’ personal files and they are ONLINE and FREE to view.

Each person’s file starts off with the document they signed when they joined. There is a link to the COMPLETE scanned version of every document in their file. Unlike US and British files the Canadian files are intact,

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discov...es/search.aspx

Couple of pics of some Australian WWI artifacts from the AWM in Canberra that toured the country taken in Jan 2017

Roger,
Here are 50 pages on MCRAE top link some good some not so good as they were scanned in, also four from the CWGC database to.

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?...&id=B7197-S006

Dropbox - Pte. A. McRae - Simplify your life

Colin,
Certainly agree there. We, in the UK seem to make hard work of everything if the word "computer" is mentioned, there is so much bloody bureaucracy, even when it it comes to logging correctly the men that sacrificed their lives for the country!

Fascinating read Gil, even if some of it is a little hard to decipher. Interesting that he was born in London, so had presumably emigrated to Canada before the war, survived a gun shot wound to the hand in October 1916 (I bet that raised some questions), went on a Lewis gun course, then returned to be killed at Passchendaele....

Roger,
Yes absolutely. He certainly was a brave man. I am supposing of course that his wound was slight and he was returned to the lines, and it wasn't bad enough to be a "Blighty One"??

Yes. I was also wondering if he got any close questioning about how it occurred. By the middle of the war SIW's were becoming increasingly common, so gun shot wounds to the hand or foot/lower leg might predispose to a grilling.

Roger,
Knowing where he was, it was probably a blast injury.
It would appear he was sent from the front line tp the 2nd (Southern)Military Hospital in Maudlin street, Bristol on the 10/10/1916 with a severe injury to his right hand.

He was discharged on the 7/11/1916 from Bristol to recuperation unit at Military Hospital Bearwood, in Wokingham where he arrived on the 25/10/1916 and was immediately discharged as fit to return to the line.

It would appear he was docked 3 days pay for going AWOL overnight the 3/4th of February 1917 until the 5/3/1917, wonder where he went for nearly a month?? Was this the Lewis gun course??
He was then sent to France on the 19th of March 1917, and was killed on the 28th October 1917.
RIP

It's hard to make out a lot of the details, but on one of the file index cards it says 'GSW R hand'. I also saw a comment elsewhere which referred to the removal of metal from the hand. I suppose that could be a bullet or bullet fragment, or a just as easily a piece of steel shell shard.

Interestingly, I found this image of the LEWIS GUN Specialist course for units of the Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion at Camblain L'Abbe which is near Ypres on the monring of the 13th October 1917. One has to assume MCRAE is on there, but which one? Nothing like a bit of detective work when it comes to the British & Commonwealth Armies!!
Also the CMR recruitment poster

On page 24 of the 50 on record if you expand the image as the words are poor, it says clearly there in pencil Returned from Course 13/10/17
All medical reference on page 44 in Military speak ie G.S.W means: gun shot wound and earlier on page 22 an entry Missile Fragment

Wrong McRae gents.

No.118087 Alex McRae, it's a good thing he left his number on that wall because his attestation incorrectly shows him as "McRea".

Canadian WWI records are here:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discov...es/search.aspx

Not only attestation papers but the entire file on each man.

No @%$^*# user fees either!

His file is here: http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?...&id=B7197-S007

DoB either 25 Mar 1895 or 96, forms don't agree. He was born in Ontario, and enlisted as a 19 year old steam fitter by trade, at Pincher Creek, Alberta on 5th Feb, 1915, and served in France from 23rd Dec. 1915 until invalided to the UK with pleurisy on 23 of July 1918. He was finally discharged at Calgary, Alberta on Feb 2nd 1919, intending to reside at Coalhurst, Alberta.

After that the trail runs cold, although an Alex McRae died in Stewart, BC in 1933 at about the right age. If he was working in the mines there his pleurisy might have returned, but that is just conjecture. Many soldiers, especially those who had flu, pleurisy etc. or were gassed moved down to the warmer and drier parts of the USA after the war. Alexander may have done so as well.

Angus McRae of Calgary, Alberta is given as his next of kin, either his father or brother: the forms don't agree. He was sending about half his pay to a Miss Maggie. M. McRae of 9 Knock Point, Stornoway, Isle of Lewis. Perhaps a sister or aunt?

War Service Badge Class A No.68023, but no record of medals being sent, nor of his date of death, which suggests he pretty much disappeared.

I thought I saw a notice from a Lethbridge, Alberta newspaper of about 1920 asking anyone who knew his whereabouts to contact the Legion(?) there. Can't find that again now though.

Attachment 96261

The way the "Mounted Rifles....Ypres 1915...." is done compared to the earlier part of the text suggests he either got tired of the task or had to finish in a hurry before moving on.

Well done Sherlock! Thanks for that. Yes, if he'd had pleurisy it may well have left his lungs 'weakened' & him more prone to respiratory complaints.

Guys,
Meant to say a film coming out on the 14th October called "They shall not grow old" is being released.
Peter Jackson the Director is using ALL the WW1 footage that the IWM hold and colourizing it and sharpening everything, its truly amazing and will certainly be an amazing film on the 100th year.
Here's a preview:

THEY SHALL NOT GROW OLD - Trailer (2018) - Peter Jackson World War I Documentary - YouTube

I see there is some further info on the real Alex McRae here.

He enlisted the same day in Pincher Creek with No.118088 Kenneth McRae, apparently no relation, but who knows? Kenneth went on to become a CSM with the DCM, MM and bar, DoW, 29th of Sept. 1918. Friends and relations often enlisted together and Pincher Creek was little more than a village then. Probably they went there together to get into the 13 CMR rather than some other unit.

There's no trace of 118087 Alex McRae in the usual records online, except that he was probably living in Toronto in 1912 and working at a firm of plumbers and gas fitters. This would probably be when he was in the 48th Highlanders who are a Toronto militia regiment to this day.

Looks like he may have been concealing his real date and place of birth. Not so uncommon in those days when family problems were to be hidden at all costs.

There's practically nothing on his brother Angus either and no sign of his parents either.

The walls of the tunnel system are absolutely smothered in graffiti written by British & Dominion troops, but as mentioned when I started the thread a disproportionate amount seems to be Canadian. I don't know but it's likely that Canadian units must have been billeted in the vicinity when not in the line. (Or do you guys just like writing on walls?!?) The village is three or four miles behind the front line as it would have been in late summer/early autumn 1916. There are dates shown with a few, the ones I noticed being around August to October 1916, IIRC. At around this time the Canadian infantry were sustaining heavy losses, but gaining many plaudits for their success, in the taking of Courcelette, Destremont Farm, Regina Trench & thereabouts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Or do you guys just like writing on walls

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I think it was just the thought that so many had disappeared into anonymity and they wanted to leave a mark "I was here"... Some survived, some didn't. I saw the expose' on the dugouts and names carved and written in the chalk too...every unit known or thought of could be identified at a glance.

Roger,
The scribbling of soldiers is timeless, and most likely, having contributed myself in some of the shitholes of the worlds, a way of informing those that follow that, "our" unit was there before them.
In many of these special locations nevertheless, they are poems and odes and the names of those that knew the "writing was on the wall" which is where it came from WW1, that they were unlikely to survive.
God bless them all.......................Lest We Forget!

Thanks chaps.......yes, the question was posed tongue in cheek. As an aside, I recently invested in a 'Linesman 2 Go' & whilst I was over there last week I managed to get to within a couple of hundred meters of where I believe my grandfather fell on 1st November 1916 (only the fact that the field was planted prevented me getting any closer). The software is a great advance over just trotting about the fields with an IGN map. It uses a Samsung padlet pre-loaded with a total of 800 trench maps & you can then lock the GPS onto the map on current view to show your precise position in relation to a trench or other WW1 feature. It works in real time so you can 'walk yourself onto' a trench. The marvels of modern science! I will return over the coming winter to try & reach the spot & have a few contemplative moments 'with him'.

ATB

Roger,
Take a small British Legion wooden cross with you so it can be a remembrance for you personally, but also be ploughed back into the land where he fell, which I have done many times in jungle locations and sandy ones too for GRAVEWATCH! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Roger,
The scribbling of soldiers is timeless, and most likely, having contributed myself in some of the shitholes of the worlds, a way of informing those that follow that, "our" unit was there before them

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I take it as a former Para that your musings were scribbled in Crayon Gil?:D

Think I'll retreat to the Sangar now and await the inevitable incoming rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

The software is a great advance over just trotting about the fields with an IGN map.

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That's a fact!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

I will return over the coming winter to try & reach the spot & have a few contemplative moments 'with him'.

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That's going to be very eerie for you when you crouch down where he was...wait for it...and the silence.

Simon,
You are very hurtful.................we were only issued crayons with the colouring books, and those who could do joined up writing like me were allowed to have felt tipped pens :lol:

Yes, Jim, it's strange I know, but I sort of feel at home & at peace out there, & never alone! I like to visit the cemeteries generally, & try to sign the visitors' register as far as possible. I think it matters - they do get looked at & it shows that people still care. There are one or two cemeteries that draw me especially though, one being Dantzig Alley at Mametz, where Captain Charlie May of 22nd Manchesters is buried. His letters home to his wife are some of the most moving I've ever seen & even now reduce me to tears when I read them. There is an excellent book about his life & service, called 'To Fight Alongside Friends', although I can't remember the name of the author off the top of my head. If anyone wants a good WW1 read I'd recommend it. It should be easy enough to find on google or similar.

Addendum: To Fight Alongside Friends: The First World War Diaries of Charlie May. Edited by Gerry Harrison.

Rog, dont start collecting medals........ there isn't enough time in the day for research, although I dont have many left now I kept the Roll of Honour I saved from a reclamation yard,

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=55530

Still never found anything on the one in the South Lancs Regiment, which is a shame as it was a local Regiment and a Pals one too. Even contacting the Author of a Pals book dedicated to the 11th Battalion he had nothing on him........... can only guess a regiment move but even then with a new service number the old one was recorded, a Soldier of the same surname on the medal roll had 5 service numbers...

It's all very poignant. It never ceases to amaze me how some people let the family medals go; how great uncle Harry's service & gallantry means less to them than funding next year's holiday in Benidorm.....

I would give an awful lot to be able to own my grandfather's medals.

Completely with you on that, Roger...

Around 25 years ago we had a major fire at our house that caused a huge amount of damage.
It started in the room where my Grandfathers medals were framed on the wall, on either side of the only picture we had of him in his uniform.

The fire brigade had swept all of the debris from the room into a large bin, that I spent hours going through trying to find his medals
I'm pleased to say all 4 were found, albeit in a bit of a state - Frame, ribbons and sadly the picture gone, but the medals themselves survived
That fire caused over £25,000 worth of damage - a lot of money 25 years ago - but the thing that caused me the most trauma was the thought of losing his medals

They're back on the wall again - in a new frame with replacement ribbons, but they are the same medals he was awarded

Eventually my son will have them and I know he will cherish and respect them in the way I do

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waco16

They're back on the wall again

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How about a pic of those?

I'm away from home for a week, but will certainly post a picture of them when I return.

My Grandfather served in North Africa during WW2 - he never talked about his experiences so what little information I have was from my Grandmother before she passed away a number of years ago.

It seems that he was badly wounded during an action and left for dead - my Grandmother actually received the 'missing in action' telegram

The story gets a little confused, but it seems that he somehow ended up in an American field hospital, and many weeks later she received notification (she said he was traced through the hard work of the Salvation Army) that he was still alive.
He was invalided out of the army in 1943 as a result of his wounds.

So, while to a collector, his Africa Star, 1939 - 45 Star, War Medal, Defence Medal and Wound badge are probably only worth a few pounds - no amount of money would take them away from my family

For anyone who does display family medals as above, I would suggest keeping the originals out of sight and in a safe place unless there in a well secured room out of sight.

Anything in the eye of strangers I would Display copies of the medals and photos...... WW2 campaign medals were not named, so no need for copies you can buy the originals for the wall, the most expensive (when I was collecting many moons ago) was the Air Crew Europe Star ....... I would say its the Arctic Star now, this really was a disgrace by the government who only approved and issued it in 2012...........

WW1 Medals and previous, were named, good copies can be had, originals can be had and are cheap enough when they have been split from a group, many WW1 medals were pawned, one of my Grandad's pawned his in the twenties, (The British War Medal was solid Silver....) I think the QSA was also, its why many groups lack the silver.

I had an interesting group once, I had all the silver but was missing the mons star and victory medal, obviously been in a pawn shop but never made it to the smelters, Guy had been in South Africa and had joined up again at the start of WW1

The saddest one of all is seeing them on a car boot sale......... I've recovered a few off there, one pair which were not too old, a Long service good conduct medal and NI General Service medal...... the thing that caught my was the oak leaf, (mention in dispatches)

I tried to find the owner (I would guess it was his ex wife on the boot sale but didn't know at the time) didn't have much success, but did get a reply from a gent in the RM association, a guy in Australia had joined up with the owner...... on a bit of research I spoke to a Department of the RN, they confirmed everything they could but couldn't say about his MID, as it was awarded during the height of troubles in NI..........

Researching can draw you in at times, bit like reading a good book and your actually there...... makes the hairs on the neck stand up.....

I am the custodian of both my grandparents WW1 Victory and War medals.

I also have the *Canadian Army playbook from my dad's father, with the chilling 1917 line "Gassed, repatriated to Peterborough"

I also have my uncles Bomber Command DFC and Bar ribbons (two tours, 57 Sqn Halifax's at Snathe and 460 Australia Sqn Lancaster's at Binbrook) and one of his FE mission documents, relating to a particularly hellish mission, it ends with the line "crash landed Manston".

* My father's dad emigrated to Canada just prior to WW1 so enlisted with the Canadians, it took some years to recover from the mustard gas, alas the lung damage eventually took him at the age of 42.

One of many thousands who were taken tragically early by the terrible injuries of the Great War.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

It's all very poignant. It never ceases to amaze me how some people let the family medals go; how great uncle Harry's service & gallantry means less to them than funding next year's holiday in Benidorm.....

I would give an awful lot to be able to own my grandfather's medals.

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I'm lucky enough to be the temporary custodian of my Grandads Medals. AM2 Walter Booth. Enlisted with the Royal Naval Air Service, transferred to Royal Flying Corps and ultimately served with 64 Sqn Royal Air force until demobbed in late 1919.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

One of many thousands who were taken tragically early by the terrible injuries of the Great War.

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We have a local cemetery that has a whole section of these men, all dying around 1950s... They all died up in the local priory and are buried in a section of pauper ground with small flat markers of bronze. Just a name and date, rank and unit to show they were ever here. Few have a VA marker in stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon

I'm lucky enough to be the temporary custodian of my Grandads Medals. AM2 Walter Booth. Enlisted with the Royal Naval Air Service, transferred to Royal Flying Corps and ultimately served with 64 Sqn Royal Air force until demobbed in late 1919.

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Si, thats got to be a propeller tip picture frame ?

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Si, thats got to be a propeller tip picture frame ?

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Well spotted Geoff. As a little aside I have a lot of his letters home too and in one of them, to his sister, he talks about the prop tip picture frame being ready very soon.

I've also found out recently that his older brother James Edwin Booth served with the South Lancs during the Boer War.

Here's a few pics of my Granddads Canadian Service book, words speak for themselves...

Also a hand written mission list made by my ex Bomber Command uncle, his (post war) dog tags and his DFC and Bar ribbon.

His FE's mission log and the WW1 medal sets are in the safe, so I will photograph them another day if anyone's interested.

Attachment 96550Attachment 96551Attachment 96552Attachment 96553

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Here's a few pics of my Granddads Canadian Service book, words speak for themselves...

Also a hand written mission list made by my ex Bomber Command uncle, his (post war) dog tags and his DFC and Bar ribbon.

His FE's mission log and the WW1 medal sets are in the safe, so I will photograph them another day if anyone's interested.

Attachment 96550Attachment 96551Attachment 96552Attachment 96553

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Bloody Hell 42 operational sorties! The bravery of these Men leaves me speechless at times.

I'm guessing the abbreviations NT and DL equate to Night Time and Day Light?

Going off on another slight tangent I was over in the BBMF Hangar a couple of weeks back mooching around the Lancaster, as you do. I watched an old Gentleman being pushed forward toward the aircraft by what I assume was his Grandaughter, her Hubby and one of the BBMF Pilots. As they approached the rear of the Lancaster the chap in the wheelchair, who must have been in his ninetees by the way, seem to discover the fountain of youth as he got up and scrambled up the steps and into the fuselage. In no time at all he appeared in the cockpit and then in the nose of the Lanc. Anyway to cut to the chase I got chatting to the Pilot who told me that the chap now grinning from ear to ear had served as a Bomb Aimer on Lancasters with RCAF in 1943/44. Strange thing was all of sudden, even with the Hangar doors closed, the wind seemed to pick up and it got very dusty in there as I watched him climb out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon

Bloody Hell 42 operational sorties! The bravery of these Men leaves me speechless at times.

I'm guessing the abbreviations NT and DL equate to Night Time and Day Light?

Going off on another slight tangent I was over in the BBMF Hangar a couple of weeks back mooching around the Lancaster, as you do. I watched an old Gentleman being pushed forward toward the aircraft by what I assume was his Grandaughter, her Hubby and one of the BBMF Pilots. As they approached the rear of the Lancaster the chap in the wheelchair, who must have been in his ninetees by the way, seem to discover the fountain of youth as he got up and scrambled up the steps and into the fuselage. In no time at all he appeared in the cockpit and then in the nose of the Lanc. Anyway to cut to the chase I got chatting to the Pilot who told me that the chap now grinning from ear to ear had served as a Bomb Aimer on Lancasters with RCAF in 1943/44. Strange thing was all of sudden, even with the Hangar doors closed, the wind seemed to pick up and it got very dusty in there as I watched him climb out.

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Morning Simon,

Alas the Bomber Command generation have nearly all flown west now.

I lost my uncle back in 1984 from Cancer, but he remained in the RAF until the 1970's.

His 42 missions did have an effect on him though, some of those harrowing missions haunted him in his later years.

like most, he lost many friends, 460 (Australia) Squadron had the dubious honour of the highest losses of an operational Bomber Command Squadron I believe...

I remember him saying the Halifax was an overlooked bomber, he commented on its ability to take a huge amount of battle damage and still get you home.

Yep, an incredibly brave generation, Commonwealth Bomber Command and their US 8th Airforce comrades paid an enoumous price for European freedom.

I have found an absolute silence on all the battlefields I have visited; there may be other ambient sounds but the absolute real silence of eternal rest remains; often funny gusts of wind with no start or end. Majuba, Spioenkop, Isandlwana, Magersfontein.

Its creepy, but wouldn't have it any other way. The French want to build the motorway right across several of their battlefields, but thankfully there is still resistance to that, which would ruin the beautiful silence and the sound of song birds which the lads heard too infrequently during WW1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Majuba, Spioenkop, Isandlwana, Magersfontein.

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You're lucky, can go visit those without any great crowds and they still lie almost as was. I'd love to go walk them a bit.

Quote:

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Strange thing was all of sudden, even with the Hangar doors closed, the wind seemed to pick up and it got very dusty in there as I watched him climb out.

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Probably just an old friend blowing through.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

You're lucky, can go visit those without any great crowds and they still lie almost as was. I'd love to go walk them a bit.

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I haven't been there for a long time, but my last visit I was the only [living] one there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

I was the only [living] one there.

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Exactly, I'd have stood quietly too for a while. You think about the guys that were there...visit the men that stayed.

Interesting, when you start digging around on these WW1 guys.
I have just completed the history and military record on 8 guys from our village who we intend to do a big thing on for two weeks over Remembrance Day 3-18th November in our local church.
One of the lads was 20 and onboard HMS Hawke when it was struck by the Titanic's sister ship in the solent in 1912, RMS Olympic. It was the Skipper of the Olympics fault as it was on sea trials, but what has transpired from this is the conspiracy, that the damage caused by this collision mirrors the damage the Titanic alledgely recieved after stirking an iceberg. The ship had to go back to Harland & Wolfe drydocks in Belfast.

Low and behold it was the only time the White Star Line had both ships side by side in dry dock. There is some detail about Lloyds of London very reluctant to pay out the insurance on the ship and the Board of The White Star line were in panic and dissaray, as the line struggled to survive.

There is also some real conspiracy stuff going round at the moment and from stuff recently recovered on the Titanic graveyard in the Atlantic, that the ships were switched over a weekend, and it was in effect the Olympus that sank not the Titanic.
Anyway, I'll leave that to the American millionaire who states that, to prove his theory.

Suffice it to say HMS Hawke was brought back on line just in time for WW1 and on the 15th October 1914 whilst at sea, took a direct UBoat torpedoe hit to its magazine, with a loss of 525 Officers and men with 86 of the crew young boys under the age of 18.

RIP amazing this one story.
Another one of the eight lads failed a medical after the MO identified he had a heart problem. At that time he was a TA soldier for 89 days.
He returned to the village totally dejected, got on a train to Liverpool, and joined the Kings Liverpool Regiment.
Ironically he was killed on the 21st September 1917 in Belgium. RIP

When you bring the unbelievable mass slaughter down to individual stories, it seems to have a more pronounced effect on people .... It's hard to relate to raw numbers, especially figures like the almost unimaginable WW1 casualties.

This has got me exploring my Grandfather's Canadian military service .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

When you bring the unbelievable mass slaughter down to individual stories, it seems to have a more pronounced effect on people .... It's hard to relate to raw numbers, especially figures like the almost unimaginable WW1 casualties.

This has got me exploring my Grandfather's Canadian military service .

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Agreed. Talking people and not numbers makes it 'personal'. Knowing the names - even without the intimate involvement of it being a family member - puts faces and lives behind numbers. It also brings awareness in ways that nothing else can. For example, one of my ancestors (Sir Brian Tunstall) died at the Battle of Flodden in 1513. While Scottish losses at Flodden are subject to debate, the total losses that day are estimated to be as high as 28% - all to arrow, pike and sword. My ancestor would disappear into that calculation if it weren't for the personal connection of a name, a face, and kinship.

The advent of Rifles, machine guns, artillery, aircraft, bombs and missiles only made war and killing an enemy less up close and personal, quicker, and easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

Agreed. Talking people and not numbers makes it 'personal'. Knowing the names - even without the intimate involvement of it being a family member - puts faces and lives behind numbers. It also brings awareness in ways that nothing else can. For example, one of my ancestors (Sir Brian Tunstall) died at the Battle of Flodden in 1513. While Scottish losses at Flodden are subject to debate, the total losses that day are estimated to be as high as 28% - all to arrow, pike and sword. My ancestor would disappear into that calculation if it weren't for the personal connection of a name, a face, and kinship.

The advent of Rifles, machine guns, artillery, aircraft, bombs and missiles only made war and killing an enemy less up close and personal, quicker, and easier.

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Beautifully put Paul....

A local Army Cadet Corps did fund raising for three years for the the trip to do the battle field tour and to visit the Vimy memorial. Each cadet had taken a name from their local Cenotaph and did research on the fallen soldier.

They also visited the Canadian cemetery to find the graves with the names that they had taken from the Cenotaph. One cadet was at the graveside where he had put a small framed photograph of his 'adopted' soldier along with a poppy and a Canadian flag.
Totally by coincidence, some descendants of the soldier's family were also visiting that grave that day, they were speechless that some young person would even care.

The cadet pointed out that at sixteen years of age the fallen soldier was younger than they were. Everybody just lost it and cried.

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

RIP amazing this one story.
Another one of the eight lads failed a medical after the MO identified he had a heart problem. At that time he was a TA soldier for 89 days.
He returned to the village totally dejected, got on a train to Liverpool, and joined the Kings Liverpool Regiment.
Ironically he was killed on the 21st September 1917 in Belgium. RIP

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Anymore info Gil, Kingsmen are a special interest to me...... must of been very early he tried to join, not many Doctors at the time turned people away, but being TA they could of volunteered for overseas duty, the beginning was strange as you had the Regular Army, the New Army and the TA.....

I believe Territorials volunteering for the BEF had to pass a medical examination.

Geoff,
If you send me your email via PM's I'll send you his whole file.
I know he came back from his medical absolutely devestated, and decided to get on a train and join a unit as far away as possible and ended up joining the Kings Liverpool Regiment, very sad, but I know what a small village mentality would have been like on his return for a young keen lad to emulate his peers in service, he must have been gutted and felt worthless!!
In this day and age, the computer would have spotted his tries to re enter the Military system, but in those heady days of poor comms ie Telegrams and expensive phonecalls he simply slipped through the net!
Good on yer RIP