Removing SMLE Fore-end Rear Screw Wire

G'day there, this again kind of comes back to me having so many SMLE fore-ends with cracks across the back and me not quite knowing what to do.

After examining Capt Laidlers writings on the subject he mentioned that in order to keep SMLE's still in the game they removed the rear screw wire and replaced it with a cross screw like in the No4 MKII's. Which is great but I have no godly idea how to get this wire out without demolishing the fore-end. Capt Laidler states that they 'drifted' out the old wire, but I've tried tapping it with a punch to no avail, I'm wondering if he meant something else or if there is more to it than that.

I figured if I can get the old wire out I can open up the crack, glue it, and replace the wire either with the one I took out or with some wire I have in a slightly larger diameter, or with a dowel, or with the cross-screw as detailed. I found the details on here about how to make the MKII cross-screw all except for what kind of nut it has (Someone said a hex nut I believe?). I have never had the chance to examine a MKII up close and see this outfit for myself.

Either way any help is appreciated. Cheers.

The "wire" in question is perhaps slender threaded brass rod - as in image below of "stock repair pins" from Brownells. If so, the way to remove intact is with a hollow drill - leaving a significantly larger hole, of course.
Also attached a photo of the No.4 Mk.2 nut, screw, and rudimentary spanner for same.

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....73&cid=1&stc=1

Ah yeah that is the stuff Parashooter. People give it different names it seems. Brian Dick measured some to be 2.3mm diameter, the stuff I have is 2.5mm. I feel like there should be some way other than just drilling it out entirely, I mean this seems like such a common issue someone must have an effective simple fix. I can't see a picture on your post Para sorry mate. An up close pic would be nice however, cheers.

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Originally Posted by nijalninja

I can't see a picture on your post Para sorry mate.

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Neither can I.

Nijalninja: I suppose you could go with the No. 4 Mk I/I* backstrap as an alternative. I believe most of the strength of these is in the backstrap itself with the peened over pin being mainly to hold it in place? An added plus would be that these are pretty easy to find and were originally used on many Ishapore No. 1 rifles.

Ridolpho

Maybe this image method will work for you -
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....83&cid=1&stc=1
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....82&cid=1&stc=1

Hey Para the images in your original post are now visible as well too for some reason. Anyway thanks mate.

Ridolpho I did think that, but it looks like a bit more word than the cross screw or just replacing the screw wire. I also would not mind keeping the square end on my butt-stock bolt if possible. Looking at it now I reckon I will have to remove the U-plate for the rear of the fore-end for the cross-screw anyway unless I patch the hole and then move the hole for the cross-screw forward so it does not enter the inletting for the U-plate.

I have an idea that does not sound too heretical, hopefully: I reckon I could gouge/chisel out a small square around threaded rod/screw wire on one side of the fore-end enough to grab it with a pair or pliers and twist it out, then I could do my repair, drill the hole out for the new wire/rod or plug it with dowel and then try the cross-screw. Then just plug up the gouged/chiselled area and make it all flat. Not butchery is it?

Just just like a cross bolt they had on the Parker Hale rifles and big game rifles I think the K-98 has a cross bolt near the chamber end of the bottom stock might be wrong on the latter.

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Originally Posted by nijalninja

Hey Para the images in your original post are now visible as well too for some reason.

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Strange how that happens sometimes here...

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

I think the K-98 has a cross bolt near the chamber end of the bottom stock

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Those are the recoil lug that the barrel sits in. A critical component...

Yeah Cinders and I believe the 7*57 Mausers have it too, and its the same principle used on Model 70 Winchesters.

Still haven't quite found answers but I'll hang around and try to dig up what I can before going out on a limb and trying my method. Thanks fellas.

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Originally Posted by nijalninja

. . . I could gouge/chisel out a small square around threaded rod/screw wire on one side of the fore-end enough to grab it with a pair or pliers and twist it out . . .

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Unfortunately, the divot you'll make to grab the "wire" will likely create a considerably larger exterior blemish than a thin-wall hollow drill would leave. (The drill can be made by filing teeth on the end of a steel tube with I.D. matching the O.D. of the "wire".)

Now that I think of it you are right Para. I also never thought to do that to make one. What angle do you put on the teeth may I ask?

I'd agree with trying Para's method. I think you might also find, having gauged a hole big enough to grab hold of the brass wire with pliers, that once you started twisting it it would probably just shear off, leaving you with an even worse problem to sort out.

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Originally Posted by nijalninja

. . . What angle do you put on the teeth . . . ?

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Anything that works. A triangular needle file is what I used for filing them "sawtooth" style. Drilling is a slow process since you have to back out and clear the sawdust frequently.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...OReXEq8h-1.jpg

I would keep the hollow drill just a little longer than needed to pass completely through the stock. You will want to use a drill press and mount the stock securely. That drill will want to skate around - especially when starting the hole.

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Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I would keep the hollow drill just a little longer than needed to pass completely through the stock.

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Wouldn't it be better to drill from both sides as when that drill bit comes out the other side it''ll chew up wood as it exits causing more damage?

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Originally Posted by Kiwi

Wouldn't it be better to drill from both sides as when that drill bit comes out the other side it''ll chew up wood as it exits causing more damage?

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Yes. Also, better to use a hand-held drill and let the bit "follow" the "wire". If using a drill press, use the old center-on-the-offside trick to ensure alignment.

Start the cut gently by hand to avoid "skating" - after all, we're machining wood, not metal.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi

Wouldn't it be better to drill from both sides as when that drill bit comes out the other side it''ll chew up wood as it exits causing more damage?

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Kiwi is absolutely correct. However, to address Parashooter's comment, There is no way I would attempt to use that cutter in a hand held drill without some kind of serious stabilizing jig. It would want to skate all over the place. Try removing the pilot drill from a hole saw and using that in a hand held drill. Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt and ain't pretty :yikes:

'Noser forgets that we're drilling around a metal rod, which serves as a pilot for the hollow drill. This isn't a 3" hole saw, but rather a ~3/16" tube - very easy to start cutting wood with that little toothed tube held with only fingers. Once it's about 1/8" in, we chuck it up and proceed slowly under power - withdrawing frequently to clear sawdust.

The threaded brass "wire" that we used to repair the L1A1 butts was different from the examples shown in previous posts. I have it in my notes as: 9525-66-014-4653 Wire, Non-electrical, Brass, screwed No.2 standard. (if that helps). It came in continuous rolls of several metres and was cut as required. You just had to straighten it out before use. The recommended drill size was No. 49 (0,073").

The application of "Adhesive, Glue, Marine", (NSN 8084-66-018-3647) was recommended for general splits, patches and splices.The process using the wire was to clamp the split shut as tightly as possible. This is where a friend in the vehicle workshop is handy. We used, and I still use, long strips of old inner-tube rubber. This is wrapped around the area being glued or "wired". As you wrap the rubber strip, you keep it as taut as possible and then simply tuck in the "running" end. After several turns, the compression on the wood gets to be quite high. Do this wrapping BEFORE drilling and wiring or AFTER the application of the "good' glue to a crack or chip.

With the wire, it was usually wound in using a hand-drill or a simple tapping tool. The brass was left protruding at both ends. Finally, the excess nipped off and the stubs carefully filed flush with the woodwork.The use of this brass threaded wire is common even in factory-new Australian Coachwood SMLE fore-ends etc. because Coachwood is, to put it bluntly, crap timber and is VERY prone to splitting if you just look at it funny.

Sure seems that you are making a big production over a simple task.
The rear crosswire used to strengthen the draws area, can be removed by simply cutting out the small centre section of wood(if not already broken out) and using a pair of long nosed pliers, unscrew the wire until it protrudes from one side....then complete the unscrewing from the side.

If done carefully enough, the wire should be good enough to reuse.

Wow a lot has happened in here since yesterday.

First off the drill idea sounds great, just might have to nicely ask some machinist friends to drill out the pipe/rod to make the hole drill. However, I have one more thing to try and repair this area without removing the wire at all first. Might as well try it first.

Regardless, I've got a way better idea of what I can work with in this area now which I am very appreciative of. No doubt I'll come revisit this thread many times in the future. Thanks everyone.

You've clearly done this job Muffet. I'd've been afraid the wire would break.

Rog, usually the timber is pretty well buggered, otherwise there would be no need for the repair.
I do have this threaded wire on hand, but very rarely have to use it, the old stuff is pretty tough.

Thanks for the tip. I've got a few knackered but repairable forends scattered about & also a small supply of the new wire; I just haven't gotten around to doing any yet, although I did turn a new brass disc for the end of one of the brass pins used on the Long Lees a few weeks ago. I'll have to give your method a try because SMLE wood is getting far too valuable to waste, if it's at all repairable......

With the wire removed, you can cut and insert a complete inner block.
Makes for a much neater repair, what you can't see, you don't worry about.;)