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Hello all,
This firearm is at a local pawn shop. They've had it for a looooong time and even though it's still currently overpriced, I may have to go in and start haggling if they don't get rid of it soon :rolleyes:.
Anyway, it has some interesting wear on the bluing and I thought we could discuss. Any thoughts on what caused this?
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Speckling can be caused by simple things being splashed on it like citrus juice...or fine rust forming on the original beautiful fire blue...then being removed by fine steel wool and oil. I vote for the second one, I've seen many done like that. It could be returned to good by dropping it into a new bath of strong bluing salts and the patches will cover. Strip it first of course, no polishing needed.
Yes, our first thought is "blood spray", but as BAR says, it could be a number of things, possibly merely sweat or salt water spray for instance...
As a note, all of the major US manufacturers (Colt, S&W, Winchester, Marlin ect.) used "The American Gas Furnace Company" for their "Engine Bluing" equipment, this left a finish commonly known as Carbona or Carbonia bluing.
This induced carbon into the top surface of the finish, and has a tendency to "flake" off.
Carbona bluing depends on high quality polishing, and it leaves an Iridescence finish which you can see your reflection in, and seems that you can see depth into the finish, much like a mirror.
This "Flaking" is very apparent with high nickel content, and high heat treatment - one reason Winchester m.1894 rifle receivers (1894-1930) and Colt revolver cylinders from about 1905- 1930 tend to show flaking and finish loss much more apparent than the frames.
S&W was one of the last users of this process, using it on their revolvers into the early/mid 1970s.
needless to say all the manufacturers guarded their exact processes very closely:
Quote:
from Colt's "A Century of Achievement" (S&W is very similar).
"Frames, cylinders, barrels, slides, receivers and parts come to the bluing room direct from the polishing department. Side plates and cranes are removed. Everything is first given a bath in hot gasoline… gasoline heated to 150 deg F. This removes all dirt particles, dust, or grease that may have gathered on the way down from the polishing room. Hot air is then forced over them to eliminate all presence of moisture – the arch enemy.
After washing and drying is completed, the side plates (revolvers) are put back on. But they are put on with work screws that hide beneath the surface so that the entire surface can be completely exposed for cleaning and bluing. When finished, blued screws will replace the work screws.
All surfaces to be blued are then wiped with a solution of alcohol and whiting – a polishing compound of very fine texture. Wiped with a clean dry cloth, they are now chemically clean. From this point on until the bluing process is complete, not a human hand touches a surface to be blued.
“These are bluing racks,” interrupted Mr. Carmody. “They are built to hold a maximum number of pieces, yet allow ample room for air circulation with no chance for parts touching each other. This one is for barrels. We have racks for frames, cylinders, hammers, triggers, extractors, latches, grip safety, etc. All our screws and pins, however, are blued in bulk in those small part furnaces that you see over there.” Matched parts, such as a slide and receiver, are alternately fastened in place in the bluing rack. Racks are stored under uniform heat in closed compartments to keep them sterile and dry.
All this is preparatory to the actual bluing process itself.
Let’s take a look at the bluing room. What do we see? Twin rows of revolving drums – thirty large furnaces and eight small part furnaces.
A bluing run starts the first thing in the morning. A secret mixture of charred bone and primer is put into the furnace. Furnaces are heated up to 500 deg or more to evaporate all moisture. The racks are loaded into the bluing furnaces, the doors bolted. The furnaces slowly revolve. Pyrometers control the heat in all furnaces. Readings are taken every 15 minutes during the five hours it takes to complete the bluing process. Top heat is 650 deg.
The furnace itself is gas fired. Four burners supply the heat and it is interesting to note that the forward burner is larger to compensate for any heat loss through the doors.
The charge used in the bluing process is ground animal bone charred to chemical purity in a bone pot placed into a white hot furnace at 1400 deg hot. Two hundred pounds of bone are charred at a time, burning away all foreign matter.
The primer is bone, soaked in pure petroleum oil. Even the oil is boiled to remove moisture and foreign matter. It must be chemically pure. The primer is what gives off the smoke that keeps free oxygen away from the pieces being blued in the revolving drums. The primer and charred bone are mixed and put into the furnace before the work goes in.
What is the chemistry of bluing, anyway? How does this bluing process impart this handsome and lasting blued steel finish so famous on Colt firearms? Bluing is a combination of carbonizing and oxidizing that by heat, brings the inherent carbon of the steel through the opened pores to the surface. All the coloring is done by heat, no particle of bone ever touches the parts being blued. The smoke given off by the primer expells free oxygen from the drum leaving only sufficient to allow combustion. The primer and the charge control the composition of gas in the furnace, the heavy carbon dioxide shielding the parts from contact with oxygen. All this calls for expert knowledge and experience in mixing the proper proportions of the primer and charge not only to obtain the proper color but to create a smoke that shall be free from moisture. Otherwise, though blued, the pieces would be spotted.”
The picture shows an operator loading a furnace with a rack holding about 80 revolver frames.
When I worked in a gun and pawn shop in the 70's and 80's, my boss used to bid on confiscated firearms at the local PD's. The damage on that 1903 Colt reminds me of several I saw and cleaned/inspected before resale that were used in suicides and had been sprayed with blood. Morbid I know but that's exactly what blood does to a blued finish when it isn't cleaned off immediately. I have a superb and matching 1943 JP Sauer 98k in my collection that was a veteran return in near perfect condition except for blood damage on the upper barrel band and exposed barrel. Whoever carried it didn't get very far. That's for sure. The rifle appears like new except for the bluing damage. It cleans the bluing off better than naval jelly.
Fantastic (and speedy!) information, guys.
Always good reading about the old ways.
They currently have it marked at $549. Like I said, too much for tastes. I’d probably go for it at more like $350. I’ve wanted one for a while and this one is mighty pretty except for the speckles.
---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------
Brian,
Eeek...now that you mention it the pattern does look suspicious. Heavy at the front and tapering to the back.
Maybe I’m not so interested in it!
Well, it aint the pistols fault if that happens to be the case! They are out there though. I used to cringe cleaning them as a kid.
It doesn't necessarily have to be from a suicide. Guns are made to kill. It could be war related, an attacking animal, any number of things. If you want it, I wouldn't let that be a dererrent.
Head shot on a downed Deer ?
What would it cost to have it re-blued ?
And if re-blued, What would it be worth (ballpark)?
Reblue I'd suspect would cost around $150. I doubt it would change the value much at all from the $350 I'd want to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
If I did manage to get it at $350, I might be tempted to hit the speckles with some cold blue and call it done.
If you cold blue it, run it though a holster a few hundred times...Quote:
Originally Posted by rcathey
Quick look on GB shows a number of these from 1920 down showing 'Speckling' under the blue.
See picture 2 enlarged: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/788392997
Asking $1,700.00
Wow..
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...60830090-1.jpg
Yowza. "Overpriced" isn't the right word for that one.
I tend to see them go for around $500 when they have good honest wear. Bluing worn through on the high spots and just a nice overall patina.
The finish on the one at the pawn shop really is quite nice other than the speckles. I'd value it at perhaps $400 or $450...but I go to way too many auctions to pay full price for anything anymore.
My trapdoor Springfield cost me a whole $220 ;)
Same seller has a NPM Carbine with buy now of $8,000
"Pony up" and spend a few more bucks for a nice one.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...WPd8KCtl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3ASjs6dl-1.jpg
Martin08,
Just a beautiful example....
Thanks for sharing it.
May I ask, Were you the one who picked up a Korean bring home 1st block NPM ? Maybe ~2 years back ?
If it's the one I'm thinking of I have that topic saved and use it to compare 'Want to be's' by.
In fact I was getting ready to find it and put a link to it in the M1/M2 forum in a post I started today about NPM's.
Again Thx...
Thanks Charlie. I found the Colt a a small local show for around $750, if I recall.
Yes. What a good memory! I don't post often over here, but I did find a complete original NPM a few years ago. I don't think that I started a topic on it, but instead added to someone else's topic.
Here is a link, to save you some searching:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....184#post393184
I’m a sucker for 32 ACP. Couldn’t tell ya why but something about it just appeals to me. But for $750, I don’t think I could choke it down right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by martin08
I’ve told my girlfriend that I want a Colt 1903 engraved as an engagement present.
So maybe one day I’ll have a really nice one haha.
I agree, they aren't really that hard to fine. Even here...Quote:
Originally Posted by martin08