Anybody know anything about these rifles?
Printable View
Anybody know anything about these rifles?
Serial numbers rarely match.
If yours is marked 99 Type, it should be what is sometimes called the 100 Type or 0 Type, with the buttress threads on the barrel. These were made up from Type 99 short rifles. They also used a modified 38 Type with a folding stock, and made two other 7.7 versions experimentally; these had a lug type arrangement in place of the buttress threads.
Note that in the Type 100 (Type 99) rifles, the parts that allow the rifle to be taken down were given new assembly numbers that match one another, but do not match the serial number of the original Type 99 rifle.
The Japanese formed paratrooper units in the late 1930's with German help, but they were not used extensively partly due to the long distances involved in the Pacific war. Since aircraft suitable for dropping paratroops had a fairly short range and could not fly from aircraft carriers, the Japanese depened more on shipborne attack than on airborne. Two regiments did stage an airborne attack on oil refineries at Palembang, Sumatra, in advance of an amphibious attack. They were sucessful in that Allied forces withdrew, but they suffered heavy casualties.
Jim
Well its got a thumb screw on the right side,that allows it to slide apart in two parts. Your right the serial numbers dont match, but it looks really good like new. I must add that it has never been fired since it was picked up as a war prize .
Cary
It is a type 2 then if it uses a wedge to hold it together. They had a assembly number that matched the front and rear section, if those match it is a matched gun. The serial number was used to match the bolt and the front band, Often the bolt is missmatched. They made a little over 21,000 of them and the survival rate is very high since they fit in a duffel bag. That said, they bring really good money because of the paratrooper connection. A doggy one will bring an easy $500 a minty one with the mum will bring over $2000.
:crying:the mum is defaced, but can be seen and both halfs dont match:banghead:But like I said looks like new an old friend of mine had it 50plus years before I got it after he past so I cant ask where he got it he was in alot of island fighting then ended up in Japan when it was over .So who knows how things show up,But I'm proud to have it.
Thanks
Cary
As DRB said the survival rate is very high since they fit in a duffel bag. At bigger gun shows you usually see more then one for sale.
Probably some where out there, there is the correct half for your rifle. Finding a matching half would increase your value by probably $500 or more. Of course you're talking lottery odds on finding it.
Now having said that, I have two T-2s, a mismatched one and a matching one. Just to play the odds, here is my mismatched one and it's numbers. Wouldn't be nice if they matched yours, :yikes: Ray
Dangit no match.Oh well kinda cool to see other ones out there and to find out some things on it .I was told that it was with the Jap Marines when he picked it up.:D
Thanks
Cary
http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banza...sembly_Article
Try these guys, ton of info on the 100 and the type 2
If the "mum" is defaced, the rifle was almost certainly taken from a depot after the surrender. Paratroops were not used as such on the islands because that was not paratrooper territory for the reasons I mentioned above. The Japanese navy had paratroop units, but AFAIK they were not used in any airborne operations in the Pacific islands. But they might have fought as regular infantry, and might have had paratrooper rifles.
There were no "Jap Marines." The units called that by U.S. troops were Japanese Navy landing parties that performed in somewhat the same way as the U.S. Marines, but they had nowhere the numbers that the USMC did. They were lightly armed and expected only to hold a landing area temporarily. They had the Navy anchor on their helmets instead of the army's red star.
Jim
To Jim K
George had a number of Jap war prizes that his kids sold and I only got one:(and dont know that much about it .Thanks for the help.
Cary
Thanks blu 97
The sight is very helpful shines some light on things .
Cary
I will stand corrected. Imperial Japanese Marines, very busy little guys.
Cary
Same thing - no such organization in the Japanese armed forces.
Jim
The article uses term "marine" (small "m") but states that they were part of a Navy landing force. And I know that Japanese naval troops were almost always called "Jap marines" by Americans. But I will say again, there was no such separate organization as a Japanese Marine Corps in the sense that there was in the U.S. and British navies. Navy men were detailed to act as landing forces. Depending on the size of the naval force and the size of the ship, they might be a permanent force, trained for land warfare, or just some ordinary sailors detailed to go fight ashore. Because of the training needed, the navy paratroops were more or less permanently shore based, but at some time in the course of the war, the use of paratroops seems to have been abandoned by both the army and the navy. The army units were restructured as regular infantry and the navy units reassigned, possibly to shipboard duty as conventional landing forces, or just as sailors. Note that the same thing happened to German paratroopers, though they kept an "esprit d'corps" even when they were fighting as plain infantry.
The reason for this is that when the Axis powers began to lose the war, their paratroops became almost useless as such. The role of airborne troops is primarily to go into an enemy area ahead of an advance to gain control of landing areas and disrupt enemy communications and supply lines; they are really an offensive force. The idea is that the general advance will meet the paratroops and they will merge into the regular forces. But if the enemy is advancing, any paratroops dropped behind his lines will be unable to meet with the main body and will be simply lost, killed or captured.
Jim
O.K. it seems like both of us know some history,and have friends that lived it .
thanx
Cary
There was one small Japanese airborne operation against an airforce base (Guam? mariannas?) that was a night drop, and essentially a suicide mission. I believe it was a B-29 base so possibly Tinian. I think IIRC the whole force was wiped out without causing any significant damage other than scaring the hell out of the Air Corps types. I'm at work so I'll have to go homke before i can check for the facts.
It would have had to be within range of land-based transport aircraft. Nothing that was carrier-based was large enough to carry paratroops, the main reason they were rarely used by the Japanese in the Pacific. I would not be surprised to learn of airborne operations in China, but the only one I know of was in Sumatra; it will be interesting to learn of any others.
Jim
There were four notable IJA airborne operations in WWII. Three as the war began: 1st in the Celebes (334 men in a drop on ii Jan '42 and 182 the next day.), 2nd on Sumatra (IJA 2nd parachute regiment, 360 men on 14 Jan. '42 with 100 the next day.) 3rd on Timor IJN 3rd SNLF (the so-called "Jap marines") 308 on 20 Feb '42 and 323 more the next day. These operations were successful. The only operation by true airborne troops against the U.S. was on Leyte by the IJA 3rd Parachute Regiment on 6 Dec. 1944, 409 men dropped from Ki-57 aircraft. A disaster with all IJA paratroops wiped out by overwhelming U.S. forces. Target was a network of airfields. All other ope4rations were in the nature of suicide commando raids by troops in aircraft which crashed on U.S. airfields to attack and distrupt bomber operations against japan, th e most successful on the night of may 24/25 1945 against Yontan in Okinawa. (7 U.S. planes destroyed, 26 damaged, by 12 commandos from the one surviving japanese aircraft. All Japanese killed. Source J-aircraft.com Main Page
Thank You Stryker
I was just going by what I was told by someone that had been there thats all.
Cary
Thanks, Stryker.
Come to think about it, I did know about the Leyte operation but thanks for the info on the Celebes and Timor attacks. I guess the Leyte attack proved, as did Market Garden, that dropping lightly armed paratroops into the middle of an alert enemy army is not the wisest thing to do.
Along those lines, I was in the First Armored Division on an exercise called Sagebrush, in Louisiana in 1955. A regiment of the 82nd Airborne dropped right into the middle of our division and was "wiped out" almost to a man. I still remember the umpires running around yelling "You're dead!" at the airborne troopers as the tankers and armored infantry battalions "hit" them with everything in the book before they could even get rid of the chutes. I never did find out if the drop was a mistake or some gung-ho officer's idea of a "surprise" attack.
Jim
Three sucessful airborne operations were carried out by the Japanese at the beginning of the war, two by Japanese Navy Airborne units (Japanese "Marines"):
1.) Celebes Islands, IJN 1st Tokosuka SNLF (air) dropped 334 men on 11 Jan. '42 and 185 troops the next day to seize Langoan airfield. SNLF (air)= Japanese "Marine" paratroopers.
2.) Sumatra (target Palembang airfield) IJA 2nd Parachute Regiment of 1st Parachute brigade (army) 460 troops dropped in two days.
3.) Timor Island IJN 3 Yokosuka SNLF (air) dropped 308 troopers on 20 Feb. '42 and 323 more the next day. (interesting because this was the FIRST combined paratroop/amohibious operation in tyhe history of warfare.)
A fourth and final airborne operation was tried in the Phillipines on Leyte by the Japanese Army on 6 Dec. 1944. 409 army paratroopers dropped on a network of U.S. airfields. Operation was a disaster, with the japanese forces wioped out by defending U.S. troops. A suicide mission involving crashing a stripped down bomber onto Yontan airfield on Okinawa (12 surving japanese commandos) destroyed 7 aircraft and damaged 26 plus lots of fuel and ammo. (japanese force wiped out) But this was not an "airborne" operation. Technically speaking if the weapon in question came from the Phillipines (Leyte) it could have come from a Japanese "Marine" parachutist, but it would be a rare bird! (In thqt raid IIRC they used a number of those also rare submachine guns of theirs. Hope this helps.
Makes me want to dig out mine. I think the numbers matched and it has a mum. I have not looked at it closely for some years. I will try to post some pics.
Wow I just seen one of these at Gunrunner,Burton Ohio . Along with several other Japanese weapons. I did not know there so rare.
When I was there, I learned to fly for a private pilot's license. We called it Yomitan. Bullet marks are still there and all over one Japanese monument. Some of the Japanese hangars are there as they were made out of cement that was poured over large dirt pile and then dug out. Clever?Quote:
Originally Posted by stryker
When the Americans attacked Okinawa, we moved so fast that Yontan Airfield was quickly taken over. So fast, that a Jap Zero landed with it's pilot not knowing we owned it now! He went down in a blaze of gun fire.
I verified that story since it seemed unusual.