Parker Hale BSA ShtLe MKIII*

I had the absolute pleasure of meeting a collector chap just the other day about this rifle, and with his permission I have some pictures as well as what I can tell about it. The pictures are not the best but show the important parts.

First off I am very new to Parker Hale and the british target rifles in general, but this rifle seems like it got quite a workout.

It is a 1917 BSA ShtLe MKIII* (Same year as my BSA and with very very distinctly similar looking wood furniture :)) It looks that the metal has been almost entirely refinished, and then maintained. The nosecap is unnumbered and comes with a PH sight protector hood (Which has evidently been there and taken on and off a number of times by corresponding wearing of the ears where they have been slid on and off). The butt-stock has a blank marking disc and looks to have been scrubbed or steamed of all of its markings on the RHS, but it is most certainly a military butt as it has two repairs, top and bottom, of the rear shoulders of the butt-stock (Same as my 1917 BSA), but on the bottom of the butt-stock forward of the heel to the butt-socket are some inspector looking marks. It comes with a PH5 rear aperture sight with the 'SMLE' plate on the side, and with this is even a PH marked stamped steel protector that clips onto the charger guide and is held somewhat by the cocking piece (very cool). I took a peak into the mag-well and thought I could see what looked like some compound tucked up between the action and fore-end. It also came with a short wide sling (which the owner found to be an old Lewis gun sling altered to suit target shooting with the MKIII's. When slung from the mid-band and trigger guard it is a good length to tuck your arm into, that is if you are a tad shorter than a lanky fellow like me.). It also retains MKIII rear sights with windage adjustment (Different serial), and a 'HV' mark on the barrel rearward of it. No 'SC'.

Now for the interesting things that had me curious: It has what looks to be a commercial BSA barrel that has been Ball Burnished and proofed. The muzzle is distinct from military barrels I have seen, and on the knox is a nice BSA crossed rifles stamp as well as minimal other marks but a serial and proof. Would it be normal for PH to replace the military barrel with a commercial one? As well as that are these two screws, one either side, of the trigger guard going up into the fore-end, which I can only guess go up and into relative threaded holes in the sear lugs to anchor the fore-end a bit more.

Again, I know little about Parker Hale, but the owner of this rifle, and myself, would like to find out as much as we can about it, as it is very very nice.

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Hi Nigel,

Great piece there, and yes it was common to see what I call AGA barrels used in this way.
Often they were a personal choice, but I did see a numerical seqence numbered rifles once, all of which had those barrels fitted, so they must have done that for a special role one thinks.

The 5A PH MKVII sight always faired well on the SMLE and you can imagine with BSA just up the road, both companies often worked hand in glove to achieve the very best for the services! I have fired, very accurately an SMLE with the 5A fitted at Warminster many years ago, and I am sure Peter L might reflect if its still in their collection there, brillinat little sight.

PH foresight covers and the good old "Flanders Flaps" were often constructed by PH during WW1, due primarily to the severity of trench warfare and the incessant mud they had to endure as front lines moved back and forth, but few records remain of the detail on their design, albeit, I did put a drawing up on here a few years ago which I can not find now, probably dropped off in the ether lol!

Yes the two BA screws did exactly that, held the trigger guard in a firm position. They look like they have taken some beating with a blunt bladed screw driver over time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

The 5A PH MKVII sight always faired well on the SMLE and you can imagine with BSA just up the road, both companies often worked hand in glove to achieve the very best for the services! I have fired, very accurately an SMLE with the 5A fitted at Warminster many years ago, and I am sure Peter L might reflect if its still in their collection there, brillinat little sight.

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When the HBSA, (Historical Breechloading Small arms Association) put together a set of rules for shooting historic arms in 1995 they deemed the P-H5a so good, (against the earlier folding sight's) that in their competitions the SMLE fitted with a P-H5a shoots in the Veteran Class alongside No.4's instead of the Classic class for rifles designed before 1919.

Gil , thanks for confirming. Do you know exactly between what years PH used ball burnishing? It could help to pin down roughly when this rifle was made-up, or alternatively are there any records for the rifles they had their hands on at all? The 5A looks to be a very stout and robust kinda thing compared to the Centrals I have seen. This cover is actually only for the front sights and has no flap to cover the muzzle, unlike others I have seen albeit not PH made. Along with removing these screws is there likely to be any kind of stocking-up or bedding which would cause issues in disassembly or reassembly? I had it in mind to strip this rifle to have a look at what work was done under the surface but was unsure if there might be things in there that would need re-aligning and whatnot should it be taken apart.

Nigel,
Dating the No1 you show I would place it somewhere in the 1914-18 era and a Mk111. Check for matching serial numbers of which there should be four:
1. Reciever
2. Bolt
3. Under Foresight, under the leaf
4. Nose cap (not in all cases but usual)
Don't fret if serial numbers don't totally match or missing it just means its had a few necessary replacements fitted
The two screws if taken out, in my view should be replaced with period screws that have been less chewed by the blunt bladed screw driver.
By removing them you will cause no obvious seating issues, but whilst out measure them and trawl decent armourers or websites and get yourself two replacement ones and a couple of spares.
I know Norman Clarks at Rugby will "definitely" have some to replace them for you, 19 Somers Rd, Rugby, CV22 7DG and has a great stock of PH stuff too.
Phone: (0044) (0)1788 579651.
I think if it was my rifle I would want to see what lay beneath and clean her up a bit with two new screws, and where the metal work could be accessed a nice TLC job where possible to keep her on the road for a lot more years yet!!.

In those days barrels were replaced more frequently as they sustained cordite wear - some people replaced them every season.

The reamed out nosecap hole is typical of S.R. (b) rifles - not allowed for S.R.(a).

I've also got a uncrowned barrel on my commercial BSA (not ball-burnished, though)



The 1961 P-H catalogue commented :
“ This is a barrel finishing process which we acquired in the year 1922, through the good offices of the late Mr. T. B. Simpson, a Bisley visitor from Australia, where he represented a well-known British firm of pump manufacturers. Mr. Simpson brought over sectioned barrels, one of which had been burnished by passing through sized steel balls under pressure. The difference between the unprocessed barrel and the other was remarkable, especially at a time when riflemen were troubled by the presence of hard metallic fouling which in some instances seriously affected the accuracy of their barrels
“ The sectioned barrels showed that the ball burnished barrel had a dark mirror-like perfectly smooth surface on the lands, whereas the other barrel, although well rifled, had innumerable cross-cuts on the lands which under the great pressure which the bullets exerts on the bore, scrapes off some of the metal jacket of the bullets until an excessively hard lump of metal forms which cuts into the passing bullets and destroys accuracy.
“ Ball Burnishing closes up these cuts on the lands and although it does not touch the grooves it is rarely that any metallic fouling collects there as these grooves are cut longitudinally, i.e. in the same direction as the passage of the bullet, therefore, there are no cross cuts to scrape the bullet skin and, therefore, no hard fouling of any consequence.
“ In a barrel that is worn, the edges of the lands become rounded, thus reducing the area of contact available to the ball in the burnishing process; it follows, therefore, that Ball Burnishing is most effective when applied to unworn barrels. For this reason it is to be recommended chiefly for application to new barrels, thereby improving their initial levelness and the homogeneity of the wearing surface of the lands giving an expectation of greater accuracy, longer life and less likelihood of collecting metallic fouling………
“ Ball Burnishing enlarges the average bore by approximately one half thousandth part of an inch, an almost infinitesimal amount which in no circumstances can cause any detrimental effect.
Many marksmen using Service rifles are misled into error in specifying precise bore sizes when placing orders for new barrels or new rifles. It is impracticable within the tolerances maintained under present day conditions [1961] to furnish barrels with bore sizes which were current before the second World War.
“ New barrels today are officially acceptable when made between .301 and .304 gauge, but 98% of new barrel production is found to gauge between .301 and .3025……….”

Hey Gil, yeah I can date the original rifle as 1917 on the butt-socket, but I was curious about when it might have been worked by PH. As someone interested in Enfield target rifles I would love to have an idea of when this rifle was taken from normal configuration to PH spec to compare with other target rifles I know of to see how things progressed, and the differences between a Brit made target rifle and an Australian one.

The reciever and bolt match, but the nosecap is unnumbered, and the rear sights do not match (They have the windage adjustment). As for the screws the owner only shoots it sparingly and takes good care of it, so I think without having to take the gun apart every week the screws should be fine unless they are well and truly cranked in there and more damage will occur in pulling them out, but finding spares might be a good idea. If the seating and bedding will not be upset and there are no other issues I will, next time I see the owner, ask if I could strip it down and take a look and do some bits of maintenance should it need it. If the finish underneath is anything like it is on top it should be fine. Cheers mate.

None of the records I hold seem to cover WW1, but I hold stuff going back to 3 band rifles in the mid 1860's, but one would assume from thier operational practises at PH which have been fairly consistant over the years, that it would most highly probably have been worked on by Parker Hale as soon after manufacture, and it being identified that it shot straight and accurately consistantly thereafter, so from that 1917-18 would date it as so.

Oh really? I had no idea about their practices like this, but it would make sense to work a rifle before it was abused in service, especially a World War, but that does not, to me, explain the armourer's repairs in the butt-stock, but I suppose you would mos certainly make better deductions than me about this.

Nothing has really changed in 100 years. If a rifle is found to surpass standards, it would be singled out for a better life in the hands of a sniper. It would appear yours was clearly in the hands of someone who knew about rifles and making them better by using better sights available, that would be my assumption, and most likely after the war in a shooting team of sorts.
The repairs are just what follows in an "active" service, knocks and bumps and bits need replacing as a matter of course IMHO, or simply changes that an owner made as he tried other bits and pieces out to improve his art!!.

To me it looks like the barrel has been cut back and flat crowned. It should protrude a slight bit past the nose cap.

Ok now I am a tad confused, are you saying that at the factory when they found a rifle that shot better than others could it have then been sent straight to PH, or would it have gone into service as a marksman's rifle, only to see PH after this time? The repairs at the back look identical to repairs on my old BSA which I can only assume is the work of a military armourer, but then the butt-stock has no marks on the RHS, its got me a tad confused. Also thanks for sharing this info, there doesn't seem to be much out there for Parker Hale rifles.

Parker Hale weren't alone in modifying and adding their designs to a host of rifles. If like the rifle you have there someone wanted to shoot it to the best of its ability at the time on a target range, they would go for one of the sight suppliers of which PH was one,. not sure why you are confused. They could then fit it, or indeed the owner could!

Added later:

I am sure you will ask, so here are the abbreviations answered for you:

SC Means= Short Cone (for use with Mk7 ammunition)
HV Means= High Velocity
OA = Orange Factory Australia NSW
BA = BAthurst factory Australia NSW

Mr Moose,
Agreed the rifle does appear cut down at the foreend to make a Sporter one assumes!

Mr moose, I noted the different crowning in the OP, and I was curious if this was perhaps a thing done on all Commercial BSA barrels, or maybe just someone's attempt at more accuracy.

Gil I was under the impression that PH would targetize rifles for their customers from basically standard rifles which they were given (In the case of a custom rifle like this not just a sporter). I just could not understand whether you were saying that the rifles could be taken directly from BSA after test shooting to PH for a different life, or if you were saying after the testing the rifle would be destined to be used with a marksman or sniper in the military after which time it had the PH workout. Its just not clear, for someone like me, what the timeline for a rifle like this is, could it be: Off the production line, and into service with a sniper, and then back to PH; OR, off the production line and straight to PH and then onto a shooting team or otherwise? I just see some things, mainly the markings on the butt, which seem to contradict both timelines: If it went to service and then back to PH it would still have the markings on the RHS of the butt-stock; OR, if it went straight to PH it would likely have never seen enough abuse to warrant the repairs at the back end of the butt-stock. I hope this does not sound like I am trying to bother you but its a nice rifle and one I would love to have a good outline for its story.

The opposed broad arrows on the receiver ring show that it was sold out of service. On the barrel the BSA stacked rifles and A G Parker shows that it is a commercial barrel that went through Parker Hale for replacement and accurizing.
The additional action screws along with the fitting of the PH 5A and the front and rear sight protectors tells me it was someone's range rifle. The way the muzzle appears it suffered some damage or cord wear and instead of it being counterbored it was cut back and flat crowned.

The mystery is in the rifle itself, each rifle is its own Holy Grail.
Stamped butt markings are another thing. Normally with a date stamped there and other markings too where the rifle has come back fro refurbishment etc.
In terms of rifles, each manufacturer had a variety of policies applied to differing weapons, and I am not going to start that long list of reasoning.

I cannot be as definitive as you would desire on this one rifle without seeing the whole story in front of me. Suffice it to say, every mark and symbol means something, and I am going to leave you to search for the answers because they are all on this website and said many many times before.
Good luck.

Mr moose, I already know the sold out of service mark, the BSA marks, and can also guess its a target rifle. I did not know about the crowning, but on a range rifle you would think a true target shooter would use cleaning rods and avoid this problem.

Gil, I know the butt should have marks and I know the basic dates and whatnot which is why I am scratching my head wondering why its blank. I tried to picture every mark I could without stripping it down, and I can't tell all that much more than what has already been said. Either way I'll keep looking.

No problem as this is what this site is good at. A variety of experienced replies to help you along the way.
Every rifle tells a tale, and no two tales are the same. Every mark and stamp on your rifle means something, and the answers are all already on this site if you use the Search Milsurps.com Search box at the top right of your screen.
Good hunting!