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I will dump all my SMGs, LMGs and HMGs in this thread. They are all fully functional, but I am NOT allowed to shoot them! In my neck of the wood you are allowed to own full auto guns, but only on a collectors permit, shooting them is a big no go.
Let's get started with an M1 Thompson.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6777-1.jpg
Nice M1... I had an M1 (not M1A1) many years ago...removable firing pin and all...
This one is an M1 that was changed into an M1A1.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6793-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6790-1.jpg
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Saginaw Steering Gear M1919A4
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http://www.milsurps.com/images/impor...IMG_7407-1.jpg
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Nice, looks like the 1919 sat out for a while...
So you can own the car, but you can't drive it?
You can cook the food, but you can't eat it?
I think Spain and Argentina have similar laws. Painful.
We have similar laws too...on our FA and converted auto.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyc
Maybe so, but everything in life is about compromises....Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyc
In the US I could not have afforded even 5 % of my collection.
The 1919A4 had set me back 3000$, tripod included. My M1A1 800$...and so on.
One friend of mine had all 4 of the main variants at one point.
He never let me shoot his 1921A with the "C" drum because someone had dropped it at a previous shoot and it was expensive to remove the dent.
..but....a 1921A with an "L" drum puts a big smile on your face... ;-)
If you are able to find a 1921 or 1928 lower, you can adapt your M1 for drums (I don't remember if you have to notch the front of the mag well or not?).
My BAR 1918 A2, made by New England Small Arms Corporation.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/impor...IMG_8807-1.jpg
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Not quite, you find a repro drum and have the spine from a box mag spotted to the back. Then it just slides up in place. No need to refit uppers and lowers...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
I had three of those through time, a Royal Typewriter 1918A2, then a Marlin Rockwell 1918 with the walnut stock and no over strikes, finally a NESA like yours...forget where my number fell in relation to yours...Quote:
Originally Posted by theholeinthedonut
Great tip. I will give it a try when my M1 transfer comes through.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Thank you
Another that we'll be watching for...maybe after the drum fitting you can make us a short vid of wringing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
Hi--
Great guns!! I had never seen that scope for the M2 Browning .50 caliber before. Can you tell me a bit about the scope is it a US produced scope or one developed and fielded by a country other than the US.
Cheers
--fjruple
PS-- Both the T&E mechanisms for the M1919A4 and M2 Brownings are on backwards. The right hand is used for firing and the left hand for making elevation, windage and lateral adjustments with the T&E.
And the slide lock lever is maintained locked by the left hand and thumb while firing with the right hand... Nice .50...Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
My .50 must have come from the same place as yours as it has the same purple bluing finish.
Indicating a high nickel content, perhaps a stronger bluing salts bath would have given a better color. The alternative is using oxinate 84 stainless salts...and that'll give you a clean black finish. If there's a high nickel content...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
Jim--
Both guns use Armasteel in those components with the purple-ish color when blued. The correct finish would be either zinc phosphate (grayish) or manganese phosphate (blackish) color in their production, commonly called "parkerization".
Cheers
fjruple
Yes...I've heard lots about this but never quite could point to it. As for park, when I refer to blue in military I do mean Parkerizing. I've done lots of both. And yes, we did both black and grey.Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Still, the high nickel content will cause a red hue in guns as opposed to the black finish. Parkerizing never gave us that result. Hard to say what was done to this .50 between then and now. The side plates are black and the rest isn't. I've seen lots of these guns with all age of dates stamped and never seen one with red parts.
Jim-- That's the nature of the Armasteel that was used in those components when standard bluing is used. It does give the gun an interesting Steam Punk look!! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I think the reason Parkerizing covers nickel better is the fact it's a coating instead of bluing with goes into the pores of the metal. I also understood "Armasteel" was a sintered steel pressed into solid form. I was under the impression it wasn't successful...and was ny used for a short time. I take it this M2 is an example of one in existence...
All those bring back memories. Thompsons and BARs were readily available in Viet Nam. I kept a Bridgeport M1A1 on my tank as a personal weapon. Upon DEROS it went to a friend in another unit. The M1919 is a veritable treasure!! The M48A3 tank came with the incredibly unreliable M73 machine gun. My solution was to reverse the modifications made to the turret and gun mount and reinstall the .30 caliber Browning. We would get asked what we did to make our coax work so well. The BAR is the granddaddy of the M240 that US tankers finally got in the mid-eighties, although most GIs do not know that.
Jim-- Armasteel was a product of the General Motors Corporation which involved the use castings instead of usual forgings to minimize the time to machine parts thus speeding up production of the M1919A4 which the GM Saginaw steering Division became later in WWII the sole supplier of the M1919A4 when production was consolidated. GM Divisions that produced the Browning M2 were General Motors Corporation (Frigidaire, AC Spark Plug, Saginaw Steering, and Brown-Lipe-Chappin Divisions). Armasteel was used in GM products like crankshafts and transmission components. After the war parts supplied the US military were generally forged and machined. Bill Ruger saw the value in castings for firearms and built his company to the great firearms company it is today based on castings. I have attached a link to a GM brochure on Armasteel.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
GM Heritage Center Archive | Manufacturing Facilities | ArmaSteel and Malleable Iron Castings, Central Foundry, Division General Motors
And another on Saginaw Steering Gear and ArmaSteel -- http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=1459
Cheers
--fjruple
These I knew about, used to study the makers marks on our 1919A4s and m2 .50s... I can see where this organization got used to using castings...yes, Ruger brought those to the general shooting public.Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
I was at a reunion at Fort Carson when one of the other geezers in our group asked the young Spec 4 who was briefing us on the M2A1 machinegun with fixed headspace and timing if it was new production. The young lad did not know. Let him know most of the story was stamped on the guns he had there. All those marked "AC Sparkplug," "Kelsey-Hayes Wheel Company," and so on were World War Two production guns. It wasn't until the mid-Eighties or so that the Army needed to replenish its stock and RAMO was awarded a contract to build new guns. We also pointed out the prominent "ANAD" on most of the weapons on his cart indicating they had been overhauled (and converted to the A! configuration) at Anniston Army Depot. He was taken aback to realize that the newest gun he was responsible for had been built before he was born and most before his grandfather was born.Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Found this many years ago in the spare parts and saved it. Note the lack of finish and the RS inspectors stamp which would indicate Hartford District aroundAttachment 96964Attachment 96965 1941
I remember that. Most of the .50s had degraded after RVN and no requirement to refurbish... I remember when we went to Pendleton and the USMC was happily showing us their BRAND NEW RAMO .50s... Anyone remember what that contract called for? Something like 800 guns at $8000 each?Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker
Is that Robert Sears?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I do believe it is Col Robert Sears, he was a inspector in the Hartford District in 1941 where the Westinghouse BMG 50 cal was being
manufactured. Also Col Sears inspected the Colt 1911A1 and the first production Winchester M1 rifles in 1941 too
I thought it might be the same man.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
CheersQuote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
No it's a GI issued sight for the M2, it was not widely used though. It's the "Sight, Telescopic, MI", the one I have was made in 1941 by the Fairchild Aviation Corporation. Unfortunately I don't have the leather M13 Carrying Case, but the lense is 100% clear, like new!!
!!!!!Insert facepalm!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Shame on me, doing it once would have been bad enough but twice.......
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Where these the original components or were they added later on in an armory?Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
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M-1928A1 with adjustable Lyman sight.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nfyzc0hl-1.jpg
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In the case of this .50 I think it's original fitting but later refinishing...but would need to examine it closely to be better informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by theholeinthedonut
Nice early features on that one, paddle selectors, Waldemar Broberg marked instead of George Goll, Auto Ord marked...finned barrel and earlier Cutts, there were four patterns of Cutts compensators. Also BNP marked as it may have come out of UK in the early days when that stuff was around.Quote:
Originally Posted by theholeinthedonut
I had a '28...and converted it to an A1 config for shooting. Here's pics of it in '28 configuration.
[QUOTE=theholeinthedonut;441579]Cheers
No it's a GI issued sight for the M2, it was not widely used though. It's the "Sight, Telescopic, MI", the one I have was made in 1941 by the Fairchild Aviation Corporation. Unfortunately I don't have the leather M13 Carrying Case, but the lense is 100% clear, like new!!
Where these the original components or were they added later on in an armory?
The parts were original from the factory. It's just the nature of Armasteel when the parts are given a classical blued finish. PS-- Great looking Thompson
Agreed, parkerizing coats the outside of steel with a textured crystalline finish, blue goes into the pores of the metal and allows the metal to be viewed...Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Nice gun, looks like a "Savage" barrel marking.
My M1A1 Thompson, with the stock removed for the picture. A "send the folks back home hero shot," taken by my loader someplace in sunny southeast Asia
You seem younger there...
Thank you for sharing your guns. Your M3 SMG has been rebuilt at least twice by the Red River Army Depot and Rock Island Arsenal. You have a great collection.
Cheers
--fjruple
I had an M3A1 for a while too, Guide Lamp also. No pics of that one I'm afraid. Shot it all I could...
I believe this was a UK modification, a bar was spot welded across the magazine catch to prevent accidental release of the magazine. Never seen this on US examples. I found this photo on the internet but also think years ago when the dewats were around in the US these M3's had British proofs and the extra bar over the magazine catch?Attachment 97188
Later on there was a protector or fence issued to help prevent the accidental release of the magazine
Is there any way to tell the time frame the M3 had been rebuilt at RRA and RIAQuote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Cheers
tom
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[QUOTE=fjruple;441647]I had the sight, as well as the tripod before I got the M2. Both were found on the Bulge battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by theholeinthedonut
[QUOTE=theholeinthedonut;442594]Is there any way to tell the time frame the M3 had been rebuilt at RRA and RIA
Cheers
tom[COLOR="black"]
Tom-
Some times you can date the rebuilt from the initials on the rebuild. I don't see any for RRAD but there is a EB for RIA. EB would the inspectors initials for his name. Some folks track the inspectors by their length of service at their particular arsenal. I would imagine your M3 was rebuilt just after WWII as the US had a massive rebuild programs and storage for future use. And probably again after the Korean War in the early 1950's. Your M3 was probably then released for sale or given as part of a US military program to her numerous allies.
Cheers
fjruple
This is what I found for the "EB" inspector mark:
EB Unknown Re-Furbished Rifles, Rock Island Late 1940'S
US inspectors
I liked the Grease Gun when two of them were part of the tank's BII. I'd still like to have an M3A1. They were very controllable and carrying them on a tank largley negated the weight penalty.
The RIA EB inspection marks belongs to Elmer Bjerke who was the supervisor of the Inspection Division at Rock Island Arsenal from Jan 1947 to
April 1958
That time frame makes more sense for an M3 type...for overhaul.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I enjoyed shooting mine also, had 10 mags and would have them all empty in 15 minutes...300 rds gone... I'd have to sweep up brass and pick it up with a scoop shovel.Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker
Another BAR M-1918A1, this one built by IBM.
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I noticed the pictures of the Armasteel receiver on the M2 earlier in the thread. Here is a new BAR with BII that has what appears to be the same finish. It was found in a warehouse at Anniston.
Attachment 97683Attachment 97682
Interesting belt too. I'd like to have a good look at that. Yes, reddish purple...wonder what the full tale on that BAR is?
It had been stored by the US Army, no doubt since manufacture, there were some other interesting weapons too
and another one just like the other one... :cool:Attachment 97778
While I am more interested in Garand related ordnance information related to Winchester , I stumbled across this information and purchased it from an estate sale. This come from the notes of an ordnance Sergeant who was assigned to WRA during WW1.
Attachment 97779
Is that the same weapon? Sure looks different hue from this angle...Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc
It is a completely different rifle. They are two new rifles complete with BII.
That makes more sense.