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Hello,I have a USGI winchester m1 carbine and I have identified all of the maker marks on all of the parts in it except the hammer.on the side of the hammer is just a stamping of a flame,there is no Circle beneath it like the Flaming bomb symbols I have seen, it is just a stamping of a flame only. It reminds me of the flame on a Zippo logo. Does anyone have any idea who the maker of my hammer is? Thanks
Carbine parts were made by hundreds of small shops all over the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S. Winchester made 15 including the receiver. It could be from any one of 'em.
As daft as it sounds, it's entirely possible it was made by the same plant that made Zippo lighters. Don't think there is a list of all the shops that made Carbine parts.
The Flaming bomb is the Ordnance Department stamp.
Spaces after commas.
Pics would be priceless...could be a worn or damaged stamp and just doesn't have the bomb below. They didn't catch it or didn't care. Let's have a look...Quote:
Originally Posted by jond41403
Yes I could take a picture when I get home later tonight. If you wouldn't care, I would have to email you the picture to post for me like you did on the M5 winter trigger kitQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
If it's a Dogleg hammer,
It may be a Type I, used very early until spring~ 43
Sounds like you may have a H stamped in a shield made by Hemphill.
These are often seen lightly struck and or partially struck.
Some are found with a small Flaming Ordnance bomb.
Riesch books says: Found used on Original Inlands and NPM.
Very possible they were used on other early makers carbines.
Not sure about any part transfers.
A link with picture I pulled from the net:
M1 Carbine Parts - Hammer - EARLY Type-I Dog-Leg Hammer (1146) | #1880129046
Here is a better picture.
I believe this may be what you have..... but yours with Very Common lighter stamping.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...40266903-1.jpg
The VERTICAL slot on top, makes this one a Type I Hammer...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...40257670-1.jpg
HTH :thup:
Thanks for the pictures and links painter 777. I have to reply this way, for some reason when I hit reply under your posts, it won't let me reply to you. My hammer only has a deeply struck flame emblem on the side, no Circle bomb underneath it and no h in a shield either. On the side of the hammer where the stamping is, the hammer does not look to be worn at all.
Sure, that will be fine...check PM for email address...Quote:
Originally Posted by jond41403
Here's three pics he sent... They can be brought up huge by clicking on the box and arrow...
thank you so much for helping me post the pics of my hammer. Out of all the maker marks I have seen listed, I have never seen one that said or described just a flame as a logo.I thought about maybe it being just a partial stamping, but the flame seems too deeply stamped, kind of like it's its own thing. It's probably a later upgraded hammer because the carbine has the milled adjustable rear sight upgrade and the magazine catch upgrade and a bayonet lug.it also has a round bolt. But interestingly enough, still retains its original push button safety which I thought was weird ever since the day I bought it.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Well jond,
We can now see you have a Milled type III (some call type IIII) Straight hammer.
A Marking I've never seen before, some Post WWII were unmarked but.........
Have you taken it completely off to see if there are markings on either of the bottom sides ?
One thing for sure.. you clearly have a odd stamping.
I'll show your pic and ask some others on different forums.
BTW- Curious about the maker of your Carbine, I don't believe you said who made it.
Also curious about the maker of your Trigger housing. Looks to be a Type III milled with the square rear lugs.
I can see just the S on the upper right rear...... Is there any number on the left side we aren't seeing ?
Hmmmmm.... :dunno:
It is a 1943 Winchester type 1 receiver(spring tube).the trigger housing on my carbine is another thing that I have wondered about.I clearly see an s but would expect to see a G or something beside of it but there is none,there's just an s on the left side and then 1 3 - A. It does have the square rear lugs.the grooves on the rear wall of the Magwell do not travel all the way up either, they are just about a centimeter long at the bottom and stop there. Like the type one trigger housings I have seen. The only upgrades that I can notice are it has the milled adjustable rear sight, bayonet lug, upgraded magazine catch and also has a round Bolt so it doesn't surprise me that it has the later hammer. When it gets into the types of these parts that's when I get confused. I knew I didn't have a dog leg hammer, but I had no idea which type Hammer I had so thank you. Now I know I have a milled type 3.I have never had the hammer off or out of the trigger group so I have no idea if it has any other markings on the bottom. My trigger group also retains its original push button safety it appears which I thought was unusual since everything else was upgraded. I took a bunch of detailed pictures of my trigger group as well it's just I don't know how to post them without browningautorifles help and I don't want to wear out my welcome by bugging him constantly with my pictures lol
S is Standard Products...... It's a Milled Type III Housing (SQ rear Lug Top)
Stan Pro used a number system that increased as their production went forward, That's where the 13-A comes in to play.
Thanks to a over worked fellow member you can refer to this link and compare Hammer Types:
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group
BTW When you do get around to taking the Housing apart, Remember the Hammer Spring goes in from left to right.
The link above will show you why.
A side note: Not sure where Kingsport is ? I have family in Nashville, Brentwood and Johnson City.
Later..... :thup:
Thank you so much for all of your help painter 777. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.that's awesome that you have family in Johnson City because that is literally just about 10 miles down the road from where I am in Kingsport Tennessee. Have you ever seen or heard of a Type 3 housing that doesn't have the grooves in the back wall of the magazine well that does not go all the way up?the grooves on mine are just barely bigger than the actual retaining knubs on the magazine and they stop right there,they do not travel all the way up like the rest of the type 3's I have seen.
There are 2 styles of Rear Magwalls on USGI Trigger Housings.......
Smooth rear wall: Used by Winchester, Standard Products, Irwin-Pedersen, Saginaw-S'G'
Fully Grooved rear wall: Used by Inland, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware, Rock-Ola, Saginaw- S.G. IBM
Just happened to be how they chose which step to manufacture.
All from memory, don't bet your check on my reply. I'll look it up tomorrow in the books.
---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------
:banghead: Forgot Underwood.... They used the Fully Grooved rear wall. They marked their .U. stamp on the grooved rear wall.
You just taught me something that I did not know or had any idea about. I did not know they were two styles used by different manufacturers.I thought the grooves just appeared on type twos and remain that way for the rest of the types. That's why I love these forums, very nice and knowledgeable people willing to help you.thanks painter777, I've learned a lot about my carbine from you
There are 2 types of smooth faced push safeties.......... Some marked inside !!
Markings on Trigger? On Sear ? Possible markings on Hammer's lower side's.
Gotcha curious enough to pull that housing apart yet ?
:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::danc ingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingba nana:
Lol,yes it does, might have to put that on Saturdays list of things to do
And if no one ends up never seeing the Flame stamping on my hammer before anywhere else, at least it's on record now as one existing and may end up helping someone down the road having one just like mine and wondering the same thing about it . At least they will know there is another one like theirs out there.sunray has me curiuos as to the maybe it was made by the same plant that made zippos
No known contracts to Zippo for carbine parts.
I'm sending you a PM.
Charlie, we know you meant Hammer Pin, not Spring. I've made some posts saying hammer when I meant trigger, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger! :beerchug: - BobQuote:
Originally Posted by painter777
New to Brass Dan thought he'd seen the flame look on a SG hammer.
Seemed I had also.
Found this listed SG hammer on auction with the same marking.
jond's:
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....2&d=1541021575
Auction SG hammer:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/sl1600-1.jpg
No idea what the mark stands for..... but at least we know there is more than 1 out there :rolleyes:
You did it! You have literally found a picture of the same Hammer that I have and have identified it as a Saginaw gear. Thank you so much.you have no idea how many pictures of hammers through the years I have looked at trying to find the same stamping as mine and have failed every single time, I post it to you guys and literally find out what it is the next day. That's incredible. Thank you painter 777 for all of your time and detective work and effort to identify it for me. You are truly a stand-up guy. That's the main reason I love these forums, the knowledge you gain and the nice people you get to interact with that are literally M1 carbine gurus. Thanks again sir
OK, so now we need to see if jond's has the SG on the left side! :clap: - Bob
Hmmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by jond41403
Must be another Painter777 on here.
I've been told my whole life that I'm a Pr!ck..... so I practice hoping to be a good one :D
I'd like to Thank BAR for handling the pictures.
Also thank Dan Pinto for his opinion
and all the others that help make happy endings possible... :rolleyes:
To jond,
We'd love to know more about your carbine,
serial range, stock and it's markings etc.
Guys like USGI Bob may be able to walk you thru how to post pictures.
I would love to figure out how to post pictures.I followed harland's advice where I believe they posted a sticky of his explanation on how to do it, but I am using a Android Z2 play phone and when I hit the reply button to reply to a post, it doesn't give me the options at least on my screen of what Harlan's explanation says I should see.in other words, when I hit reply it doesn't give me an option that I can see to attach anything to my post like a file. I can attach files and pictures all day long sending emails, but not in the forums for some reason.heck, I can't even seem to figure out how to reply directly to painter 777.Some members on here I can hit reply under their post and it will let me reply to them, but some members it won't let me for some reason.like when Browning Auto rifle post something I can reply directly to him but when painter 777 Post something it won't let me reply, I just have to reply to him starting a whole new post underneath. And as far as the stock on my carbine goes,I can't figure out if it's an M2 stock or just a Type 3 stock converted to an M2.there are no markings inside or outside of the stock. I have looked with a magnifying glass and all different kinds of lighting scenarios and can't detect anything.the only thing stamped is the upper handguard which is stamped IO. My stock has an oval oiler cut out, and wood that goes all the way up to the bottom of the recoil plate, there is no gap between the bottom of the recoil plate and the stock.my stock seems to not have a potbelly unless my eyes are playing tricks on me because I have never actually held a Potbelly stock in my hand, I have only seen them in pictures and I don't think my stock has a potbelly it looks more flat on the bottom.That's why I have always thought my stock was a type 3 converted to an M2 because I have the selector switch cut out
---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------
yep,I agree,I'm going to disassemble the trigger group Saturday and see what my trigger, Sear, push button safety and bottom of the hammer are stampedQuote:
Originally Posted by USGI
---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------
and of course, as soon as I figure out how to post my own pictures, I will show all detailed pictures of the entire carbine.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------
1176194 is the serial# and I just noticed it finally let me reply directly to you painter777. It hasn't let me for the past couple days but seems to be working now lol
---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------
I forgot to mention my stock has the longer Barrel Channel measuring 4 1/16
jond,
Lets first start here- look this auction over and look at picture 11.
Can you see the SA stamped on the top of the forward left side barrel channel?
If your stock has this marking you have a post WWII Springfield Armory stock.
Auction link:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/780787072
Picture 11 with SA marking:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...37030784-1.jpg
No, the stock has no stampings whatsoever on the outside or inside any of the channels. There's nothing in the sling well either. My stock has a Winchester recoil plate and looking from the underside at the recoil plate nut, it looks to have been in there for a very long time because it looks like Decades of dust and grime have gotten up in there in the recessed area that the nut sits in which doesn't necessarily mean that it's been in there for a very long time but it does appear that that is the case. I have to say as far as I can tell,the auction link you sent me,the stock looks pretty much exactly like mine except mine does not have the sa stamp on the side of the barrel ChannelQuote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Hate to tell you this, but you're lousy at it! *LOL*Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------
jond, the reason you couldn't PM Painter is that you don't have enough posts yet. There are a certain number you must have before you can have full access to the features of this site. I don't remember how many are required, but it isn't all that many.
oh cool, thanks for telling me, I had no idea lolQuote:
Originally Posted by jimb16