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Can anyone help me with this barrel? This appears to be a new barrel never installed. It is marked SAGINAW S.G. DIV GENERAL MOTORS it is not dated and most barrels that I have seen have a date on them. Any and all help is greatly appreciated! I can not see how to post pictures of it.Attachment 97140Attachment 97141
I am not a carbine guru like most of the guys on here are but I do know enough to tell you that all carbine barrels were not dated and are still usgi barrels.the pros will chime in soon and give you your answer without a doubt.evidently I will learn something new here too because I noticed the picture you posted of your Barrel, I did not know M1 carbine barrels were left roughly machined. The picture of that Barrel reminds me of my Mosin Nagant barrel which is a 1943 wartime manufacturer where they did not take the time to machine it smooth and just left little lines like pictured on your BarrelQuote:
Originally Posted by jbm
Attachment 97159Here are some better photos.
Attachment 97157Attachment 97156Attachment 97155Attachment 97158
Is that an ordnance bomb stamped on the cas cylinder? Looks like it's been sand blasted and parkerized. Could have been done after the fact.
That is a ordnance bomb, I did not even see it. Were these stamped on all barrels? Also, the bore on this barrel is absolute perfect.
Attachment 97160
To me with barrel in hand does not look to have been blasted and parked, the machining marks are too prominent and I would think with sand blasting they would not be.
Maybe right...Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm
BAR, did they leave carbine barrels unmachined and not smoothed?I know Russia did their barrels that way during the war because they were just worried about cranking them out and not finishing them up but I did not know American made carbine barrels were that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
It's just the parkerizing that makes it look rough. The machine marks look correct. If it were rubbed with oil and handled a bit on a carbine, it would be smoother too... Just not sure if it's WW2 new, don't know for sure.
It does appear to still have a long skirt. I could be way off but I thought they switched to the short skirt fairly early on.
Like jond41403 says, not all barrels were date stamped. Not all of 'em were ground smooth either. Not all the manufacturers made barrels at all.
Way down near the bottom they talk about Ordnance Bomb stamps.
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Barrel Manufacturers
If you haven't been to that site before, all the links work. Keep you busy for a few days reading it all.
"...not sure if it's WW2 new..." Saginaw S. G. only made Carbines during W.W. II. May 1943-April 1944. They also made a whole lot of other stuff.
And no,all barrels were not stamped with a flaming bomb, some but not allQuote:
Originally Posted by jbm
Saginaw S.G. did not date any of their barrels. The long skirt would have been used till about the spring of 1944. An unused S.G. is a real nice find.
Jbm, did your Barrel come from Norway by any chance? A lot of New Old Stock barrels I have seen lately seem to be coming from Norway, I have thought about buying a spare Winchester Barrel myself from Norway
The barrel did not come from Norway, I picked it up locally with a few other really nice carbine parts, I was just stumped on the barrel.
I'm no expert but I believe your Barrel is a New Old Stock ww2 replacement barrel because it has a long skirt. As someone posted above, he said they quit using long skirts around spring of 44 and Saginaw never dated any of their barrels so I would think it is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm
Hello jbm,
May I ask if there is any sign of a stamped P proof mark on it ?
Are any letter markings on the end of the stainless steel gas piston ?
Can you take a picture of the stake mark(s) on the piston nut ?
I don't recall seeing the Bomb shell on the side of a Saginaw Gear gas cylinder before.
I DO recall seeing the Bomb shell stamped on a couple S.G. barrel's..... serial numbers were 3,26x,xxx and 3,290,xxx both also had the S.G. Flat bolts with the Bomb on the right lugs.
Haven't seen it, but believe fellow member Deldriver has/had a S.G. 3,25 mil that also had a Bomb on the barrel.
Pictures show the P firing proof stamp and Bomb shell on 3,290.xxx S.G. M1 (Saginaw Gear Barrel)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/01/sg4-1.jpg
Forgot to add,
Looks like the barrels skirt and threads are Parked..
Is inside the Chamber: In the White ?
I ask because if you compare to the being called 'NOS' barrels from Norway, you'll see the threads, skirt and chambers appear to be in the White.
Just curious,
Very nice find....... Congrats !
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/sl1600-5.jpg
Here is a picture of the P and the piston nut, the P is about 6.5 inches down from the muzzle, the nut appears to have a WI on it.Attachment 97190Attachment 97189
The barrel being marked Saginaw S.G. Div General Motors, would that be correct to have the flaming bomb?
All of that area is parked.
Hard to tell from here :-)
But does it look like a bit of the Park may have leaked/seeped past the plug used at the chamber entry ?
jbm,
So I know by now you know it's a Repark.
But still a very nice barrel to have.
Cheers
BTW,
That extra park can be removed. Send me a PM if you'd like.
That seem to be the consensus, but holding it in hand it is just so sharp and no smoothing of the machine marks. I was able to find this one with some google searching, It looks almost identical and the seller sold it as NOS.
SAGINAW SSG GENERAL Motors M1 Carbine Barrel NOS Minty WW2 Carbine Undated - $395.00 | PicClick
IMO,
Your barrel is nicer,
your color also looks more like the original color.
The one in the link is too dark...... prolly why it took 67 days to sell.
Like I typed above..... the Park can be removed from the threads, skirt and chamber entry......... and I don't mean by sand blasting.
That's what I thought. We did lots of that sort of thing, old made new... But could it have been a WW2 replacement part or do you think it was parted off a carbine and refinished before resale?Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
If you use silica glass beads, there's no damage or erasure of markings, everything remains clear and sharp.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm
Letting the threads, barrel skirt and chamber sit in a container with just enough Muriatic Acid to cover only that area would strip away that new park.
Once the new park is removed, clean away residue with water.... (Swirling it around in a 5 gallon bucket of clean water will do), then dry and oil it.
Do have concerns if the S.G. barrel Gas Cylinder is legit.
Pictured here is a Fake Rock Ola we dealt with a short while back on a $10,000 IP carbine
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...13061252-1.jpg
This SG barrels's Gas Cylinder pictured in reply #3 looks very similar.
Do that in a well ventilated area...too.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Thanks for all of the help from everyone on this barrel. Not that it matters but when I picked up this barrel from a local guy I got quite a few other parts with it and I know mostly what they are, I was curious about the date of the barrel and the barrel not being dated like most. Pretty much all of the parts I got from him are in the same condition, maybe not brand new but in excellent condition. Thanks again for all of the help and info.
Bottom left is a 1911A1 disconnector...let's see you fit that in.
Also see a couple M2 Disconnector plungers and springs.
Nice grab to add to any parts stash.
I'd be interested in the flip sights. There are a couple of projects in the safe needing completion.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm
I think its an original replacement barrel. This is because regular production barrels were Parkerized with the band and sight on. On an original barrel you see a 'white' strip when you move the barrel band, and if you take off the front sight it is very pronounced. In this case the intention would be for the armorer to install the band and sight already on the carbine on the replacement barrel - that is, if I'm correct
I44,
Where would Parking over the threads, barrel skirt, chamber and stake marks on the piston nut come in to play?
Inland applied finish as a assembled barreled receiver... to include band and front sight... like you describe.
But WRA among others applied finish to these parts loose.
Replacement barrel assemblies were packed with band and frt sight installed.
I'd never heard that before...Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
I should have been more clear,
They were stored post WWII after the big rebuild programs as complete assemblies. These Spare parts barrels were usually barrel assemblies, not a plain barrel only with gas piston and nut
I can't say All were, but many like the barrels we currently see being offered up for sale on Ebay from Norway
The only maker who made barrels right after the end of the war was Winchester with a replacement barrel contract that I am aware of. Winchester being the storage area for government owned machinery for making carbines, then used IBM equipment to make barrels. None of these had sights or barrel bands on them when shipped out as replacements.
Hi Bruce,
Thx for the WRA information. I do remember the SA barrels near 1950~
It's the replacement barrel assemblies that went along with spare parts to our lend/lease allies that I've seen the barrels with T3 bands, frt sights and Pistons installed.
I'm also looking for my notes on who parked completed like Inland and who parked unassembled like WRA.
Can't find them....
I Apologize to the OP jbm for throwing off his topic.
CH-P777
No apology needed, I enjoy learning as much as possible.
I wouldn't say that you were throwing off the op's original topic,he was only wondering about the dates that he thought were supposed to be on the barrel and he had that answered for him by you guys. It's side notes like you have provided after his question had been answered is where people like me learn the most.I know me personally have learned a lot just by the last six or seven replies on this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by painter777