Interesting story about new custom M17 pistols:
Tomb of the Unknowns Guards Begin Use of Custom M17 Pistols - Soldier Systems Daily
Printable View
Interesting story about new custom M17 pistols:
Tomb of the Unknowns Guards Begin Use of Custom M17 Pistols - Soldier Systems Daily
Interesting looking pistols.
A bit OTT in my opinion, I can appreciate the sentiment but I would personally prefer to see a well Maintained standard arm for the guards. I’ve never really gone for all the bling that finds itself attached to ceremonial guards etc.
A smart uniform, a well presented individual and maintained equipment is all that I need to see from a military guard.
Perhaps, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
You have a point. But the detail and thoughtfulness is notable. They did more than just slather the guns in fancy paint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
I object to the soldiers wearing sunglasses. I think that's disrespectful. But maybe it's just me.
That’s kind of what I mean, if it was just the sidearms that are blinged I can kind of appreciate it but it’s the whole ensemble. These unknown soldiers were just that ‘Soldiers’ and the idea being that they were regular Joes and the unknown soldier could be anyone. The fact that an honour guard is present all the time is respectful enough for me.
It’s only my opinion of course and it shouldn’t detract from any nations memory to the dead.
I have often watched the routines the guards go through. I can't help but think the whole thing is more set up for onlookers/tourists, than actually guarding the tomb.
The whole robotic inspection looks, IMHO, ridiculous. Why is there a need to inspect the rifle in public anyway? He's not inspecting it, he's going through a choreographed routine.
It adds nothing to the sentiment of why they are there, just adds to the public spectacle. Maybe it's my reserved British ways, who knows, but like someone else mentioned the sunglasses, it all seems a bit OTT
Perhaps I can help some of our British and Canadian colleagues better understand why this retired American soldier appreciates the thoughtfulness that went into these pistols.
To many Americans, Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) is hallowed ground and honors the many sacrifices of generations of American soldiers. As a means of honoring those soldiers, various ceremonies are performed at ANC included the changing of the guard at the Tomb.
I believe the new Sig pistols as well as other ceremonial accoutrements of the Tomb Sentinels add to the honor and respect shown to the Unknowns and other American soldiers who have sacrificed so much for their fellow Americans as well as our allies around the world. 🇺🇸
Many countries have similar ceremonies for similar reasons. If you aren't or weren't military or lost a dear one or friend in the military, it is a tourist attraction. The effort going into the 'tourist attraction' will ensure the reason for the ceremony is kept alive long after most 'civilians' have forgotten why the ceremony is there.
OTT? Most military ceremonies are choreographed/rehearsed ad infinitum in any case.
I didn't say I was right, it was just my opinion. The pistols are clearly a work of art.
please don't assume that, because we thought it OTT that we have neither been in the Armed Forces, nor lost close friends.
There are somethings that are better left the way they were. Sig is using this to help them hold onto the new contract to replace the Beretta pistol and trying to sell them to the civilian side. The pistols are considered to be bad to start with. Do not drop one that is loaded as it may just discharge. Then when you shoot and have fired a full magazine look to the right and half of the rounds are on the ground unfired. The Navy has been holding off on these for the Marines and the Navy because of the problems with them. Sig has know about these all the way back to the Sig 250 and still have not gotten a proper fix for them. In fact the Army designed a new ball ammo round for them and the pistols do not feed them reliably at all. The new hollow point rounds they also designed does feed better. Problematic pistols at best and they are issuing them to our troops over seas in combat.
the m17 pistol is fine, it was the civilian version that had an issue that when dropped a specific way, from a specific height, like upside down with a cocked hammer and a chambered round with the hammer hitting at a 35 degree angle from 6'.... yada yada
the whole ceremonial thing is just a gimmick. Arlington and every other national cemetery is supposed to be a somber event. BLING is bad. Only bling they need and should have is the dress uniform.
as for a side arm they actually don't need one. But if they DID need one it should a standard mil spec 1911A1
It is a unique location and affords thousands of visitors remembrance of sacrifice on a massive scale by the United States of America.
These men are hand picked to do this roll, and take pride in their respective parts at the cemetery.
Like ANY drill team, including our very own RAF Regiment drill team here in the UK, they formalise dress and customs to suit the fad of their OIC at the time, and because Commonwealth countries discourage sunglasses on ceremonial occasions, this location is slightly different, because they are there 24/7.
To see soldiers in the UK for instance, just wearing their service dress in pouring rain is ridiculous, but those who have served will know what I mean.
These Marines are kitted out for all elements that can be thrown at them and good luck to them, they still look smart and respectful IMHO.
One has to assume the weapons are loaded but as stated, if their pistols are named individually, again that was probably influenced by those who can best make decisions on that and for good reason.
The country is rightfully proud and so are those tasked with their rolls there on a daily basis in rain or shine.
On a lighter note, if you want to see really bad drill, look at The Parachute Regiment changing the Guard at Buckingham Palace.....................we just don't do drill or shiny things including ruining dull boots by making them shiny :)
The report on the problems with these pistols is from the military and not the civilian market place.
Hi Gil, it's the 3rd Infantry Division "Old Guard" in the dress blue uniform. They aren't Marines. As for sunglasses, I'm not on board. It's what we used to call "too Hollywood". I still have vivid memories of them being smashed by drill instructors at Fort Benning when we were fresh off the bus. Not mine of course, I've always been blind as a bat so had regular glasses! I can see them being used in the field but not on the parade ground anywhere.
Brian,
Thanks for that, yes remembered later who they were. They are of course doing "their own thing" in a cpative audience location.
Good look to them, whichever way you cut it, they are showing respect thats what its all about IMHO!
LOL! I loved that comment, because I could never make sense of shining a pair of boots, and then going bush and trying to hide from people. Shiny anything and hiding? Counter intuitive. I had a pair of 'going bush' only boots back in the day that looked like they were suede leather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Paul,
It reminds me of being a very clever young soldier once when a certain brand of leather polish came out that shone like a sixpence on all leather from the U.S.
The brand name escapes me.
All you did was paint it on carefully and no Sergenat Major could really notice unless he got down on the floor, other than to remark how much work had gone into the result and made everyone else take note as to the standard required in future..................................then one day it rained on parade.
No one tells you on the instruction label.............. the boots went white.
I spent a few days in the room where the sun leaves its suntan in stripes on your face, and I had plenty of time to reflect on bulling boots because the CSM gave me the whole Platoons to bull whilst I was in custody..............lesson learnt :lol::lol::surrender:
Well, you had time, didn't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Better than peeling spuds Jim, lost my fingerprint on my right index finger for a few years :lol:
And well you should have...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd