South African No 1 Mk 3 barrels?

I don't own a No 1 Mk 3 type rifle, but I recently ran across a couple of South African No 1 Mk 3 barrels for sale from two different sources. One is unwrapped and being sold as NOS. The other is in a waxy material like cutting tools are dipped in after sharpening and is being sold as "excellent".

I looked through my copy of The Lee-Enfield and only found one brief reference to South African made Enfield parts.

I also did a search here with little luck.

What is the story on these? When were they made? When were they originally imported to the US as surplus and sold?

They are used barrels that are from stripped rifles, they are normally complete with the rear sight block etc. A dealer in the UK bought many.........

I believe they were originally made by the UK trade in WW2 as factory dispersal production.

The S A marked Barrels have have allowed the creation of many new build SMLE's over the last 15 years

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

They are used barrels that are from stripped rifles, they are normally complete with the rear sight block etc. A dealer in the UK bought many.........

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Interesting.

The "NOS" barrel has the sight bases and inner band mounted. It also has a five or six digit (a digit may have been struck out) number stamped on the chamber end. Looks like it suffered a bit in storage too.

The "excellent" barrel that is still partially covered with the waxy looking coating does not appear (pictures are not the best) to have a number stamped on the chamber end but it is wearing sight bases and the inner band as well.

Guys there is a company in Australia that sells new barrels southern cross militarila also do wood as well not sure if they ship to the states . Cost is around $500 Aussie dollars .

The ban on arms sales to South Africa meant that the country developed its own arms industry including spare parts for existing arms.



IIRC the inner band which comes already on it had a different-from-normal thread.

There must be SA barrels from more than one source then. Many years ago Charnwood imported a load of them, all wax dipped, all with rear sight bases & all brand new (NOS) SA 1950's manufacture. When Charnwood ceased trading most or possibly even all of the barrels were bought by Terry Abrams. I managed to persuade Terry to let me have a few. I think he still has some, although last I heard he didn't have many left & so was reluctant to part with any more.

Here's an older thread that touched on this a few years back, re: SA manufactured barrels.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....597#post370597

All of the South African SMLE barrels I've had were plastic coated and in new condition. They are excellent. The RFI barrels Sarco has available are take offs but mostly "as new" and also excellent. I've lost count of how many I've breached up for folks over the past few years. No complaints.

Just as a useless anecdote, at one time in South Africa the licensed part of the rifle was the barrel. Receivers were not registered.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

There must be SA barrels from more than one source then. Many years ago Charnwood imported a load of them, all wax dipped, all with rear sight bases & all brand new (NOS) SA 1950's manufacture. When Charnwood ceased trading most or possibly even all of the barrels were bought by Terry Abrams. I managed to persuade Terry to let me have a few. I think he still has some, although last I heard he didn't have many left & so was reluctant to part with any more.

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I'm a lucky lad, I managed to get Terry to rebarrel my MkIII* with one of those earlier in the year. Beautiful, shiny bore and very nicely blued on the outside. Terry told me they were barrels removed from brand new rifles when the SA Gov't disposed of their stocks of SMLE's.

yep, they are extremely good, not stripped off rifles but unfired, and not expensive in the UK - if you know the right gunsmith!

Yes, the few I have left I shall be hanging on to.....

AFAIK, all the LE stuff in the SADF was sold off in the middle nineties - rifles and ammunition. From about 1984 we could buy a firearm and ammunition from stock, which were all LE starting with the oldest first. The new government discovered this "horrors - we arming the population", etc, etc and stopped it immediately! Most of the later purchasers were black soldiers IIRC. Barrels and actions weren't sold separately at all.

There is no way they would have removed barrels from the rifles before selling them all, why strip rifles if you are selling already. Such multitude of actions ex SA military doesn't seem to have appeared in any case. These barrels would really have been spares for replacing worn ones.

A dealer I know has imported some SMLE's in the last few weeks from South Africa. Having had and sold 5 of them over the years I bought yet another to compete in the NRA Armistice match with.
The butt disk is stamped S.A.P. (South African Police) and the receiver is nicely marked with a GR cypher and Enfield 1918.
A friend also purchased one from the same source which is a commercial B.S.A. & Co.

I may well be wrong but I think that all of the barrels I bought from Terry A were/are brand new.

Most are Rog but they are take off barrels form new stock, hence the sight block etc. Some bare the marks of the barrel wrench or vice. Terry did indeed have a truck load.

Terry Abrams put one of his 1950s barrels on one of mine a couple of years ago.

I have had a lot of these, over 100. None have shown any evidence of being previously fitted to a rifle. The muzzles are not even crowned. Some have been blued, some have what appears to be a suncorite finish. The inner band screw thread is certainly different. It is my belief that they are unused and unfitted.

Thanks for all the info. Seems there was a little more to this than I expected.

I encountered exactly this problem a couple of weeks ago when I fitted a NOS 1950's production SA barrel to a WW1 SMLE for a friend of a friend. The originals are the oddball EFD thread but I'm pretty certain, as MkVII said, the SA barrel inner band is a standard British Association thread, although I've already forgotten if it was 0 or 2 BA!! I'm pretty sure it was one or the other.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Just went out into the workshop & checked my crib sheet. The original screw is quoted as 0.1875" dia x 33 tpi. It is stated that 2 BA will work as an alternative..

It is 2BA, or at least very close. I run a 2BA tap into the inner band and a 2BA die over the inner band screw. Cleans things up and makes assembly easy. I still maintain that these barrels have never been fitted to a rifle. None of the considerable quantity that I have had show any evidence of previous fitting. As stated before, the muzzles are not even crowned.

I agree re the barrels being new. All of the examples I have had are brand new & still covered in the factory grease, which takes some removal. Running a tap down the inner band hole & a die down the screw threads works fine in my experience, although I think I did make a screw from scratch once. My barrels came from Terry A years ago, & he in turn purchased them from Charnwood Ordnance when they packed up in around 2000. Unfortunately I can't remember where Charnwood got them from.......

Sounds good.

How long should the screw be? What head style?

Thanks.

The screw is identical to the standard pattern. Just run a 2BA tap into the inner band and a 2BA die over the screw threads, as previously stated that is what I do and it works absolutely fine. Really very simple.

You should be able to source an original screw from 'that internet auction site'. There are several UK spares sellers that have these often enough. I'd buy one & run it through a 2BA die as advised above. If no one is listing one currently, then I'd just ask one of the more popular sellers if they can supply.

I've got an original screw, but I lack a 2BA tap and die. Need to remember where I ordered the British tap I used to repair a No4 T scope bracket from.

Taps and Dies, Reamers Milling Cutters | Tracy Tools Ltd UK

I always use these people. Their prices are reasonable, & they ship quickly. I bought 7 BA taps, die & core diameter drills off them only last week. The parcel arrived 48 hours after I ordered & paid on line. I'm also pretty sure they will ship worldwide.

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Originally Posted by Garandy

I've got an original screw, but I lack a 2BA tap and die.

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I use Tracy Tools, here in the UK. They are quick, inexpensive, & I'm pretty sure they ship worldwide. I ordered 7BA taps & tapping drills from them last week for a job on a target sight. They arrived within 48 hours of my ordering them on their web site.

Alternatively there will be plenty of 2BA taps and dies listed on ebay. Might save a bit in shipping costs.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Taps and Dies, Reamers Milling Cutters | Tracy Tools Ltd UK

I always use these people. Their prices are reasonable, & they ship quickly. I bought 7 BA taps, die & core diameter drills off them only last week. The parcel arrived 48 hours after I ordered & paid on line. I'm also pretty sure they will ship worldwide.

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3 orders in one week al for the same items.

:lol::lol::lol:

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

3 orders in one week al for the same items.

:lol::lol::lol:

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It seems that we are still having some bedding in problems with the posts. I tried sending the above several times, both with the URL & without, & using both Google Chrome & Microsoft Edge, but just kept getting database error messages. Little did I know, that the posts were actually uploaded to the forum, after a delay. It now won't let me delete them. Doug is onto it......

Roger, I have to ask: ever tried Tracy Tools?

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Originally Posted by RobD

Roger, I have to ask: ever tried Tracy Tools?

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:rolleyes::banghead::rolleyes:

Thanks Roger. I figure out who I previously bought my 4BA tap from and it looks like they have what I need for about $22 USD plus freight which isn't too bad.