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I just came across two NPM carbines that were built with Underwood receivers. The word Underwood was lined out but the serial number was still used. The numbers were 276xxxx and 277xxxx. Can anyone tell m about when they were built? I don't trust the date on the barrels as they both went through govt. rebuild and the barrels could have been changed.
Thank you.
I can't tell you about the build date but I can tell you that just because they went through a rebuild does not necessarily mean they do not retain their original barrels. I have a rebuild Winchester that still has its original BarrelQuote:
Originally Posted by bobg
Hello down in Nigeria Bob,
Are they marked with just a N below the lined out Underwood ?
NPM got receivers from Underwood, IBM and Inland.
Underwood IBM and the Inland receivers would have been lined out and the N stamped below the serial number.
US&S made receivers would have been marked National Postal Meter (US&S made these for NPM) then had a U stamped below serial number.
To be honest........... I'll have to look further in to it in the morning.... as far as dates for barrels.. and the split serial number blocks/sequence... etc.
Plus being in the UEF 2 mil serial block makes it harder to figure because of the way they put this 2 mil block on hold and started their 4 mil block, eventually work on both of these overlapped.
In this 2 mil serial block is where UEF had 4 different Sub contractors making receivers for them: T,B, W and S any of which marked near the heal.
Any sign of any of these other Underwood receiver sub contractors letter markings?
Cheers Buddy
Charlie
They have the N marked below the serial number but no sign of a sub contractor marking.
If you're worried about the barrels being replacements simply look for the NPM proof punch on them. You may have to look under the bayonet lug for the punch marks though.
Did NPM use the proof punch during their entire period of production or just for a certain time period?
No, but pretty close to it.
Is it known what time period they did or did not use the punch marks?
I've seen Punch marks towards the end of 1st serial block NPM.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg
Like Deldriver, I believe it was pretty early on..... maybe half way through their 1st serial block (?) that NPM stopped stamping their P on the barrels they received and just applied the Punch mark near the barrel makers P proof.
I believe it was considered a time saver on NPM's behalf.
But with that said here's a recent sale by Sam T Bob of a lined out Underwood to NPM that has a no date Marlin barrel with 2 P proof stamps on the barrel. No punch mark and in your serial range~.
Being STB I can't say if this was the original barrel:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...58464189-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...69336784-1.jpg
Jim M,
Has some info and pictures of NPM proofs near the bottom of this page:
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Barrel Manufacturers
Now for a time frame of UEF receivers to NPM for possible barrel dates.......
War Baby page 447 lists lined out Underwood to NPM receivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg
Serial number examples used are 2,743,286 (pictured) and 2,767.294
Goes on to note that Underwood sent to NPM the following receivers:
1,500 completed delivered on Nov 18, 1943
6,000 Semi-finished on Dec 16, 1943
7,200 Partially machined on Mar 12, 1944
Total of 14,700 receivers.
Guess the question remains......
Whose barrels were they using at these times and (if) dated what would they be.
It might be easier if you could list the barrels and dates on them to be able to say yes or no as to the correct time frame for you.
Hi Bruno,
The OP is my Ole Buddy Nigeria Bobbie....
He's just torturing me, that's his style.
Can you send the Wife's snow shovel back ?
She'll be needing it the next few days.
One barrel is a Buffalo Arms dated 9-43 and the other is a Underwood dated 9-44.
Neither has a punch mark, just a stamped P
He's a little over an hour away from me, I could go over and put pins under his fingernails for you. :madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
The 9-44 Underwood is a replacement barrel. The Buffalo Arms barrel is most likely original to the receiver. NPM received about 12,000 finished and unfinished receivers from Underwood in December 1943 and the last Buffalo Arms barrels they received was about 30,000 of them was in December 1943.
Charlie I sent you back the crummy worn out shovel back last year. You really should buy her a good one for the work she has to do while you buy more carbines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Should add that the 7,200 Partially machined receivers were REQUESTED on March 12, 1944. See nothing about the complete order being filled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
I see no record of the actual delivery date. And would assume scrapped receivers were possible.
Bruno, Am I correct that NPM finished production/contract ~April of 44 (Except the Commercial Controls) ?
If so.... I see no possibility of a 9-44 UEF barrel being original.
Bob you sure it's 9-44 ??
What ?? :nono: She was the one who wore it out. Now I'm hoping she doesn't come across this.......... she'll put 2 and 2 together and know she's getting a new shovel for Christmas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
I've got to keep my overhead down so I can keep buying !!
Thank you for the help on the barrels. I'm glad to hear that one of them might be original.
I'm tempted to ask "What's a snow shovel"? but what I should be saying is thank heavens for them... When y'all folks start shoveling - all of a sudden my phone starts working and my guiding season (all winter and well into spring) gets going strong... Every day I look at weather reports up north and start expecting the folks who think a day or two in the Everglades might be a really good idea...
Lemay,
We still fish........
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hingTips-1.jpg
I can send you some matches so you can light them too!Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
You are still catching that in the middle of winter? Why we who fish the ocean call that...BAIT!!!!!!!
Here's our fare -and without the ice.... This is the photo I show folks that wonder what we're up to each day (when the tarpon are around...). The gear we're using is pretty light - in fact we're using gear that would be familiar to most bass anglers...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../c3PDrDv-1.jpg
this one was about 80lbs - they do come bigger...
Anyone wanting a brochure - send an email request to lemaymiami@aol.com. You'll get a brochure with color photos by return mail.
The last groups of NPM had IBM undated barrels. If I remember hearing, NPM received about 60K? new IBMs. Mine has a single punch mark just near the small P proof.
BobG,
I seen your WTB ad here.
Trying to locate a NPM Sear, and I'll assume you have a need for a NPM Mag Catch......... :dunno:
Yeah Good Luck with that ! :rofl:
I dug out a NPM Buttplate.. Need it ?
Let me know,
Charlie P-777
Yea, but they are hard to find too.
Great info on the Underwood/NPMs. I've been to FL twice in the winter; once to Tampa/St. Pete for a seminar during Super Bowl time which was amazing because coming from 25 degrees into 75 is just incredible. Another time a bunch of us went to Disney World about the same time of year and they had a freak cold wave - it got down to 32 two nights. The only coat I had taken was an A2 flight jacket but I was glad I had the sense to take something. I mean after all, you're coming home to cold weather if for no other reason. It was so cold they had to take many animals and plants underground those nights. We were there for a week and the last three days were pretty nice but still cooler than usual.