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Hi all. Anybody out there use a case gauge?
I've been reloading .303 off and on for about 18 years. I'm finally wondering if a Wilson case gauge is useful in checking .303BR, which has a rim and is mostly neck-sized when reloading. That is, until full or partial full length sizing is eventually needed again.
Note: I checked, and L.E. Wilson does indeed make a case gauge for .303BR.
L.E. Wilson Case Gages
(And don't ask me why they spell it "gage".)
I have and use them in 5 different calibres and find them extremely handy. It makes it easy to see if a case needs trimming or not quickly.
Dick
"...why they spell it "gage"..." It's American vs The Queen's English. snicker.
Been loading match grade ammo for 40 some years without any of the current measuring tools. Never seen any need for any of 'em. Digital Verniers are easier to read though.
Wilson keeps calling their gauge a head space gauge too. It's not. Cartridges do not have head space.
It's faster to lock your Vernier calipre at the max case length given in your manual and use it as a case length gauge.
There is some precedent in military usage. Metrology: measuring or inspection is done using a "gage." An instrument for displaying a parameter is a "gauge." Similarly, a "fuze" is used to detonate an explosive while a "fuse" is us to protect and electrical circuit.
I have been reloading the .303 on and off since about 1970.
I spent a bit of time trying to determine the best way to reduce or eliminate case head separations. I have been loading 50 years and the .303 is the only round that I have ever loaded with such dismal case life.
So yes I have a Wilson case gage for the .303.
However
1. The Wilson gage matches US SAAMI dimensions which matches US mfg dies and brass.
2. Over the years I have owned 1 SMLE and 2 #4 mk1 LEE ENFIELDS. I have bought and traded for once fired cases fired in literally dozens of other rifles.
3. Not a single once fired case has a shoulder location that matches that gage. The gage is useful for about 5 minutes since the longer shoulder location is easy to see.
Once you realize how far off the chamber and shoulder mismatch is the gage becomes worthless.
The Brits changed their chambers somewhere because their own ammo does not match the chambers either. Yes they work in combat but they are not so great for reloading. Not only do LEE ENFIELD chambers not match the ammo and anything standardized by SAAMI they vary tremendously among the rifles.
Some have almost a 90 degree shoulder. These are what I refer to as "clown" chambers. Whoever ground the chamber reamers for some of the rifles must have been working in 3rd world facilities.
My recommendations use the heaviest toughest brass you can find with a head close to .460 dia. Of the new brass available PPU seems to be the best by a mile. PPU brass heads measure .454 to .455. Still a bit small but better than the US brass at .450 to .452. Use mild loads and neck size only.
"It's faster to lock your Vernier calipre"
Spelling counts?
Jajaja
BTW if they are digital they are NOT verniers either.
They are only vernier calipers if they have a vernier.
I lock my calipers trim those that need it, this may seem a PITA to some but I keep all my brass with the same rifle FLS'ing @ every 3rd firing as I only have 4 shooters and 2 safe queens its not that hard.
After tumbling or sonic cleaning which ever I decide on its a case (Pun) of TTL, Chamfer, Neck size, inspect & clean the pocket (Sonic normally cleans this out well) then reload with a light crimp so neck tension is as close as possible the same for each round.
I get good life out of my cases I have had 3 head separations in 22 years (Always in a timed event!) I normally get between 10-12 reloads from a case before after wiring them consider them binable mind you I am using AR 2209 with a load that keeps pressure down to around 38,000+ psi the bullet is not doing 2440fps but the better SMK BC makes up for the reduced velocity V's transonic/subsonic flight at longer ranges, I found AR 2208 a bit to sharp.
It's not surprising that cases give up quickly after Ireload2's explanation...things I found out too. When you FLR cases there is almost 1/8th" of material that needs to come off. When you neck size and leave from the shoulder back alone there's nothing. It's because of the rolling shoulder and the difference between drawings and actual case shape after firing. I just recently sold my last .303 and have quit with them because of the issues...there's no magic gauge that can save them. Lee used to make a gauge that you could check case overall with a quick application. I've had one and not used it either for years. I just use a trim die now. Set to length and during reloading process the excess gets trimmed off. Yes, I still have a rotary trimmer too...
.303 was my first cartridge I started reloading back in 1980...back when it was available in quantity as factory ball.
I too have suffered frustration trying to reload .303 British. If you full length resize so the ammo will fit all your guns you will have to trim the brass every time. By the third loading you will have a significant number of case separations. The only up side is that owing to the significant taper the broken section of the case will come out stuck on the round you just extracted because the bolt wouldn't quite close.
If you neck size to increase case life you have to dedicate brass to each gun you shoot. Here is one time the Lee collet dies seem to have it over other methods of neck sizing only in there is less stretching and subsequent trimming.
Nobody makes a flat based 174 grain spitzer. While Horndy and Sierra make some lovely boattail spitzers many MILSURP rifles have seen enough Cordite that they sling them more than they shoot them. On the other hand, out of a new unfired Vickers barrel, the Hornady bullets atop a moderate charge of Reloader 15 the Hornady bullets would pass the "punch firing test" of a 50 round burst within a 2 foot by 2 foot square at 500 yards required before firing over the heads of friendly troops.
Sure wish some of the WCC 81 or the Greek HXP stamped stuff was still around.
I only load for for 1 Enfield. I learned my lesson full length sizing and threw away 50 separated cases. They shot fine but I needed my separated case sxtractor. Now I use a Lee collet die with Prvi cases only. With the other rimless calibers i shoot all brass remains with a specific rifle never changes. Hornady 174 shoots best for me, I used it at Ben Avery for the Vintage Sniper Match. I use the flat base round nose for our 100 yard club matches. Measuring headspace is not something I consider with the 303. I did use the o ring technique to get straight cases but gave up since I am easily distracted. I have noticed tight chambers make a big difference. My friend has a Mark 4 #2 that drives tacks. With a vernier sight he can shoot better than my Mark 4 T with scope.
" Nobody makes a flat based 174 grain spitzer"
OT yes they do the Bullet Factory here (Over eastern states) makes 174Gn HPFB at .312" see pic the BF is on the left with the 174gn SMK on the Rt sorry for the above shot was from my I-Phone but the meplats on all the Bullet Factory are as uniform like you did them yourself and they are allot cheaper than the SMK.
I was one of the first to buy the BF projies ended up buying 800 of them.
As a side note I lucked onto 580 Highland 174Gn 303 projectiles a while ago these are not made anymore and were really accurate out of all my shooters I think I have about 900 of them now for a rainy day.
I am a horder I brought up on the SMK's when they were allot cheaper think I still have about 1,300 of them.
Curses! Seems either the website is down (404 error) or they have gone out of business. I was wondering if they might ship to the US. It would be even better if there was an international equivalent to the USPS Flat Rate box.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
PMP in South Africa make 174 and 150 gr flat base soft point. Not sure diameter but the 150gr is .311". About R 500/100 from most gun shops. = $0.33/bullet
I think they may have gone out of business I sent them a message to TBF via the mobile No. they listed and no response as yet will wait & see. Bugger.
Bullet Factory shut up shop in October this year, had an email from him stating that he was too busy to continue at the present but is hoping to start up again in the not to distant future.
Dick
A little more info about my .303 experience.
For many years there were no match or FMJ .303 bullets available through common channels in the US. Back then I was mostly a hunter anyway so I shot Sierra, Hornady and Speer flat base soft points with excellent accuracy especially with the Sierra 180 Spitzer and the Hornady 174 RN. Other posters on the net have reported the same results with the Hornady RN and the Hornady 150 spitzer flat base.
I have experimented with other cases in the .303. They were older .455 head diameter Remington .30-40 Krag brass, .405 Win brass and .444 Marlin brass. All worked better than the .450 to .452 head US made .303 brass.
1. But one of the Krag cases separated on the first shot because the shoulder was so short compared to the .303 chamber.
2. The .405 Win brass worked out the best but was a lot of expense and work. They took several passes to form. The necks were too thick so they had to be turned to fit the chamber. Some of the rims were too thick for my rifle.
3. The .444 Marlin cases were expensive and had to have the heads swaged to .459 to fit my .460 chamber. Swaging the solid .464 case head to .459 was difficult and I split 2 die bodies learning how.
If you really want to shoot .303s you need better brass, a better chamber and dies that match the chamber.
A new .308 groove barrel with a SAAMI minimum chamber that matches your FL sizing die is probably the best answer if you can spare a small fortune to have a dead barrel replaced with a new one. You could still shoot your rifle with a wide range of .308 bullets loaded in the .303 case.
I often thought of just replacing a .303 barrel with a .30 cal barrel and reaming for 30-30 Winchester. You'd need to mod the mag lips but it would be doable.
The 444 Marlin that was a ball tearer both ends, owned one for quiet a few years sold it to get into H/guns should never have done that it was a JM micro groove I brought new in 1977. bugger!
Criterion was making new No.4 barrels with .300/.308 dimensions. I shoot two a lot and if I burn one out my thought was to rebarrel that route. In North America there are plenty of options flat base wise in .300/.308. Currently using 174 SMKs and 180 FB. Both No 4s and only one No 1 shoot the boat tails very well. Most of my No. 1s spray them out the pipe. I ended up with a bunch of PPU and Winchester brass when an old friend passed. I’m FLR and getting 3 to 4 reloads, not great but good enough. I’m also annealing every reload to try and ensure I make that 4th reload.
I saw on a post the 180 grain Sellier and Bellot fmj for the .303, does anyone know where I can buy these bullets? Thanks, Cheers