Yet another 32 mk1 scope inquiry.

Good evening everyone. I'm luckey enough to have been given an earlyish 1941 Number 32 scope. It appears to be in reasonable condition. Yes I admit that there will be potential problems. My main concern is mounting it on to my no4 1/3Ftr.Its a fairly tidy rifle so I'm not keen of the idea of drilling holes into it.This in itself is not a great problem as I run my own milling machine etc. Would it be possible to use a top mounting rail and Ring's. Or would this mount the scope too high. I apologise for a probably often asked question but I'm new to this forum. Tia.

Welcome! This is a common situation, and most people either:
1. fit repro pads and bracket, and make a replica. Fultons have these [at least, they did recently] and if you carefully read the threads on how to do it, it sounds like you have the skills to make a success of it. The overall value of a No 4(T) replica is roughly the same as the parts added together. So you wouldn't erode your investment; whereas tapping a top rail into the receiver would permanently take £££ off the value of your rifle.
2. go down the "no gunsmithing" mount, and if you choose this route, the £140 mount from Fulton's is highly regarded: Fultons of Bisley - FULTONS NO GUNSMITHING SCOPE RAILS FOR ENFIELD RIFLES SR2

If you find the scope is too high, you could fit a £24 repro cheek piece from DS Solutions Search - cheek

Finally, before you 'scope your rifle, ask yourself whether the rifle shoots excellent groups, in the hands of a good shot? If it doesn't, then I suggest don't 'scope it. Many people think a 'scope will make the rifle more accurate. It doesn't - it just makes the target look bigger. The market is full of unsold 'scoped rifles, esp. Mosin Nagants and K98s, which simply can't group.

Rob

I don't suppose your Mk1 scope has the number 3273 or 1923?
Can live in hope!

Thanks for the welcome Rob.The rifle as is shoots well. It has a crisp bore. I have a copy of Major Renolds and Robin Fulton's book regarding bedding a no4. I think bedding is the way to go first off. I would prefer a non gunsmith mount as explained above.In the end the scope might turn out a pile of ***. I'm certainly not after a tack driver. Thanks again,you have certainly put another edge to it! Which is good...

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Originally Posted by RobD

Welcome! This is a common situation, and most people either:
1. fit repro pads and bracket, and make a replica. Fultons have these [at least, they did recently] and if you carefully read the threads on how to do it, it sounds like you have the skills to make a success of it. The overall value of a No 4(T) replica is roughly the same as the parts added together. So you wouldn't erode your investment; whereas tapping a top rail into the receiver would permanently take £££ off the value of your rifle.
2. go down the "no gunsmithing" mount, and if you choose this route, the £140 mount from Fulton's is highly regarded: Fultons of Bisley - FULTONS NO GUNSMITHING SCOPE RAILS FOR ENFIELD RIFLES SR2

If you find the scope is too high, you could fit a £24 repro cheek piece from DS Solutions Search - cheek

Finally, before you 'scope your rifle, ask yourself whether the rifle shoots excellent groups, in the hands of a good shot? If it doesn't, then I suggest don't 'scope it. Many people think a 'scope will make the rifle more accurate. It doesn't - it just makes the target look bigger. The market is full of unsold 'scoped rifles, esp. Mosin Nagants and K98s, which simply can't group.

Rob

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Thanks for the reply. See below.

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by waco16

I don't suppose your Mk1 scope has the number 3273 or 1923?
Can live in hope!

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Sorry Waco it isn't either. It doesn't
hurt too ask. Good luck with your hunt.

Hodgson, there's no need to be frightened or wary of fitting your No32 to a decent No4 to make a No4T replica. But you MUST read and re-read again several times the simple instructions wot I rote some time ago and is recorded elsewhere on this forum. But make sure that you follow them to the letter or you will end up with a pile of crap. It is too easy to drill first and read next. Read FIRST, re-read SECOND, measure twice and drill once. You only get one go. But if you do you'll end up with a good replica and competitive rifle to boot

I was hoping for scope # 3203. I too am dreaming!!:):)

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Hodgson, there's no need to be frightened or wary of fitting your No32 to a decent No4 to make a No4T replica. But you MUST read and re-read again several times the simple instructions wot I rote some time ago and is recorded elsewhere on this forum. But make sure that you follow them to the letter or you will end up with a pile of crap. It is too easy to drill first and read next. Read FIRST, re-read SECOND, measure twice and drill once. You only get one go. But if you do you'll end up with a good replica and competitive rifle to boot

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Thanks Peter for your reply. If I decide to go for the proper mount I will follow your directions. I have had the said rifle for a good 20 year's. So naturally I'm apprehensive.I think I'll get the scope checked over first and go with a non gunsmith mount before attacking it. Just to make sure. Thanks again for your reply.

Maybe if you post your scope number it would prevent a lot of folks asking if it's right for their rifle. Me included, Lol, Ray

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Originally Posted by rayg

Maybe if you post your scope number it would prevent a lot of folks asking if it's right for their rifle. Me included, Lol, Ray

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Ok Ray. Tel. Sighting /No32. Mk1./OS.446A.KL/1941 REG.No6611. Since first posting I'm no wiser to where it came in manufacturer dates.

What about buying another rifle you have no emotional attachment to then bed and mount a repro mount for a tidy No.4(T) of your own? Then you can have 2 rifles to be proud of!

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Originally Posted by jonh172

What about buying another rifle you have no emotional attachment to then bed and mount a repro mount for a tidy No.4(T) of your own? Then you can have 2 rifles to be proud of!

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jonh172. I'm certainly thinking that way now.What a can of worms to open looking for a decent No.4. I don't know where you are situated. But in the the UK you need permission too obtain another rifle. Sigh...

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Originally Posted by Hodgson1

jonh172. I'm certainly thinking that way now.What a can of worms to open looking for a decent No.4. I don't know where you are situated. But in the the UK you need permission too obtain another rifle. Sigh...

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Oh wow I had no idea!!
Here in Canada you can just buy what you find, I see now why you are struggling with how to move forward.
Good luck on your quest!

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Originally Posted by jonh172

Oh wow I had no idea!!
Here in Canada you can just buy what you find, I see now why you are struggling with how to move forward.
Good luck on your quest!

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It's not too bad but you need a good reason to posses.To obtain a firearm certificate in the first place is a major hurdle. Due to police checks etc. Don't get me wrong this in it's self is not a bad thing,due to the every increasing nutter population. It just detracts the fun element when you're after a new toy....

And you bleeders reckon you got it tough;

Here is W.A Firearms Branch latest folly, we now have them here asking by letter to which you have to reply with evidence what dates and what caliber rifle with its serial No. you used on range days and how many days you shot throughout the year based from club records.

The only way to keep a sleeper is to get a collectors license now (More money to the Govt coffers, cannot be shot at all big fines if your caught shooting it) and put them on that as I can see them saying you did not use that 303 at all therefore why do you really need it as they the police are not interested in whether you see it as an investment, no way they are getting my "T".

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

And you bleeders reckon you got it tough;

Here is W.A Firearms Branch latest folly, we now have them here asking by letter to which you have to reply with evidence what dates and what caliber rifle with its serial No. you used on range days and how many days you shot throughout the year based from club records.

The only way to keep a sleeper is to get a collectors license now (More money to the Govt coffers, cannot be shot at all big fines if your caught shooting it) and put them on that as I can see them saying you did not use that 303 at all therefore why do you really need it as they the police are not interested in whether you see it as an investment, no way they are getting my "T".

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Ron, Its similar here, all clubs are required to keep a record of each members visits and what he shoots etc, in most cases its up to the individual to keep his records up to date, we don't have a separate ticket for collectors pieces etc, you just state you want a ........ for part of a collection.

Its only recently the Police have started to check individual records on club visits.

Nearly all my Firearms are on a collectors slots, No4T's L42 etc, you can fire them for demonstration purposes etc but are restricted to ammo. Pistols which are not Section 1, can be held as Historic section 7.1, or 7.3......... 7.1 you can keep at home but cannot fire them (they must be produced before 1919). 7.3 you have to keep them at a designated club .........but you can fire them.

Maybe its an age thing but The days of lying in a soaked firing point trying to see the target in horizontal rain coming at you are over for me, except when I'm away with the Reserves, even then reading the weather can be an advantage.

I'll volunteer for Look out, sitting in a tower looking over the estuary drinking tea and reading the graffiti beats getting drenched and freezing your nachos off, you still have to go out and Warn folk of the Danger area though, its amazing how many folk can't recognise a big red flag and read the notice underneath.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

And you bleeders reckon you got it tough;

Here is W.A Firearms Branch latest folly, we now have them here asking by letter to which you have to reply with evidence what dates and what caliber rifle with its serial No. you used on range days and how many days you shot throughout the year based from club records.

The only way to keep a sleeper is to get a collectors license now (More money to the Govt coffers, cannot be shot at all big fines if your caught shooting it) and put them on that as I can see them saying you did not use that 303 at all therefore why do you really need it as they the police are not interested in whether you see it as an investment, no way they are getting my "T".

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I heard Australia was pretty tough on firearm's.But not firing a collectable weapon is pretty draconian. To many liberal/snowflakes in power.Funny how they shove a musket in some bloke's hand when their liberty is threatened. Lol

Hi all,

Perhaps there's another thread appropriate for this but this current thread is recent...

I have a No32 mk3, OS 2039 A, No 24024. Originally mated to rifle 32344 (on bracket and No8 mk1 steel transit case).

The turrets are 'seized' and need servicing. Otherwise the optics are crisp and clear. I don't know if there's any other issues. Knowing the collector I purchased this (and the mismatched No4 mk1 T with it--rifle is matching (receiver, bolt), scope not matching to the rifle though) I can safely assume that the scope hadnt been serviced since originally sold surplus.

I'm looking for advice on who can perform the necessary refurbishment. In Canada, U.S. or U.K. I want the work done right and won't risk sending the scope to someone that isn't highly recommended.

Perhaps Mr. Laidler, sir, you could help with info?

Last discussion of No32 refurbishment is a bit dated.

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Originally Posted by Hodgson1

Ok Ray. Tel. Sighting /No32. Mk1./OS.446A.KL/1941 REG.No6611. Since first posting I'm no wiser to where it came in manufacturer dates.

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1941 presumably. IIRC from Peter's book on the No32, that would make it the 661st scope produced by KL as their SN range began at 6000.

WW began at 0 or else 1000 - AFAIK nothing below 1000 has ever surfaced even stamped on a buttstock, and HBM began at 3000. HBM soon dropped the date from their production for some unknown reason. I once had 3057 which was dated 1941, but have never heard of another.

IIRC, no trials rifles are seen with KL SN ranges, so either they were a bit slower getting going or the need for the 1400 odd scopes required for the trials conversions was filled from WW and HBM production.

Much of the production then appears to have spend a couple of years or so sitting in a depot somewhere before H&H caught up with the supply of scopes.

Good evening Surpmil,

I have a 1931 dated trials rifle with wrist stamped 6003. My other trials is dated 1933 with HBMC number 3234 stamped into its wrist.

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Originally Posted by StratA

Hi all,

Perhaps there's another thread appropriate for this but this current thread is recent...

I have a No32 mk3, OS 2039 A, No 24024. Originally mated to rifle 32344 (on bracket and No8 mk1 steel transit case).

The turrets are 'seized' and need servicing. Otherwise the optics are crisp and clear. I don't know if there's any other issues. Knowing the collector I purchased this (and the mismatched No4 mk1 T with it--rifle is matching (receiver, bolt), scope not matching to the rifle though) I can safely assume that the scope hadnt been serviced since originally sold surplus.

I'm looking for advice on who can perform the necessary refurbishment. In Canada, U.S. or U.K. I want the work done right and won't risk sending the scope to someone that isn't highly recommended.

Perhaps Mr. Laidler, sir, you could help with info?

Last discussion of No32 refurbishment is a bit dated.

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Get the contact info for Warren on here, or Wheaty on CGN. He's one of the best here in Canada.

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Originally Posted by mr.e moose

Get the contact info for Warren on here, or Wheaty on CGN. He's one of the best here in Canada.

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by smle addict

Good evening Surpmil,

I have a 1931 dated trials rifle with wrist stamped 6003. My other trials is dated 1933 with HBMC number 3234 stamped into its wrist.

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Very interesting! So you have their third scope AFAWK! That should win the prize for earliest survivor.

Colin's spreadsheet on the trials conversions will show up some interesting patterns I'm sure. Is your data in the thread?

Not yet; I've been meaning to get the information over to him. I'll do my best this weekend if it rains; that's a good excuse for hiding in the garage and pulling all the Lee's out of the safe!

Correction: The wrist is stamped 6003, but the scope its currently wearing is a KL in the high 6000 range.

Sorry for the confusion

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

1941 presumably. IIRC from Peter's book on the No32, that would make it the 661st scope produced by KL as their SN range began at 6000.

WW began at 0 or else 1000 - AFAIK nothing below 1000 has ever surfaced even stamped on a buttstock, and HBM began at 3000. HBM soon dropped the date from their production for some unknown reason. I once had 3057 which was dated 1941, but have never heard of another.

IIRC, no trials rifles are seen with KL SN ranges, so either they were a bit slower getting going or the need for the 1400 odd scopes required for the trials conversions was filled from WW and HBM production.

Much of the production then appears to have spend a couple of years or so sitting in a depot somewhere before H&H caught up with the supply of scopes.

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Thanks Surpmil. I apologise for not reading your answer sooner. Very interesting reading. I'll jot your information down on this scope. Thanks again for taking the time to reply in such a detailed way. Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

1941 presumably. IIRC from Peter's book on the No32, that would make it the 661st scope produced by KL as their SN range began at 6000.

WW began at 0 or else 1000 - AFAIK nothing below 1000 has ever surfaced even stamped on a buttstock, and HBM began at 3000. HBM soon dropped the date from their production for some unknown reason. I once had 3057 which was dated 1941, but have never heard of another.

IIRC, no trials rifles are seen with KL SN ranges, so either they were a bit slower getting going or the need for the 1400 odd scopes required for the trials conversions was filled from WW and HBM production.

Much of the production then appears to have spend a couple of years or so sitting in a depot somewhere before H&H caught up with the supply of scopes.

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I have scope 6009, so from what your saying is the 9th KL scope produced?

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Originally Posted by tonyd

I have scope 6009, so from what your saying is the 9th KL scope produced?

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Peter's scope serial number lists are just ranges and are not exact. Earliest KL scope I have seen to date is 5849, latest is 7769

Lance is right. The scope numbers are just he ranges that the old Instrument Techs had noticed through their service. Like all these things, Bren Mark/types and the Mk1 intermediates are a classic example, you'll never be dead certain until you've seen them all

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Originally Posted by tonyd

I have scope 6009, so from what your saying is the 9th KL scope produced?

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That was on the basis of Peter's published research. As you can see, more examples have surfaced since which change the picture a bit.

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Originally Posted by Lance

Peter's scope serial number lists are just ranges and are not exact. Earliest KL scope I have seen to date is 5849, latest is 7769

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Interesting; and someone wasn't paying attention when they cut that locking segment hole!