Long Branch No. 4 MK 1 (T) with Alaskan No. 32 TP Scope

Does anyone have an estimate of how many of the 350 Long Branch No. 4 MK 1 (T) rifles with No. 32 TP scopes survived? I have seen pictures of a couple of all matching rifles but I have personally seen only two rifles with original mounts and original non-matching scopes here in the U.S. in 30 years of collecting. Over the years I have seen examples of almost all of the other British snipers (No. 1 MKIII Aust.(high and low mount), No. 3 MK I (T) and (T)A and the other No. 4 production snipers) but the No. 32 TP Long Branch rifles are pretty scarce.

I'd like to know how many have survived too, Tom, although I doubt very much that anything other than a guess can be made. Many of these rifles were supplied to friendly nations just after WW2 & no doubt precise records existed then, but unless Warren has them in his stockpile of microfiched data I doubt we'll ever know how many were handed over. About twenty years ago the late Pete Bloom acquired thirty scopes, complete in their rings, from a Dutch dealer. (I believe both Holland & Belgium received some TP rifles). It would appear that all of the rifles supplied to the Dutchmen were destroyed, hence the scopes & rings being sold off on their own. I've owned two TP rifles over the years, & still have one of them. I let a pal have the other some years ago as he had a gap in his collection. He still has his, too. Both are genuine, but have mis-matched scopes. Mine used to belong to Rob Hallam of Charnwood Ordnance.

Pete Bloom told me that the scopes were seperated from the rings when he got them so there was no way of matching them up.

Well, I've learnt something new tonight then. I wasn't aware of that, & I bought eight of them! All were genuine scopes in genuine rings. I now also don't feel so bad for neglecting to note down which scopes were mated to which rings! As an aside, my then machinist made a small quantity of reproduction mount base rails so that Pete could sell some of them as 'kits'. I wish we could buy them back now for the price we sold them for then!

Thanks Roger. I always appreciate your insights on British snipers. I have seen very little information on Long Branch TP snipers outside this forum. The Rock Island Auction Company sales provide a reasonably good idea of how common (or uncommon) firearms are here in the U.S. To the best of my knowledge Rock Island sold ONE No. 32 TP Long Branch (original but non-matching scope) in the last 20+ years.

I had a couple of the scopes from Pete Bloom. Both had the original rings but no bases which I assume were left on the rifles that were destroyed. He found a scope one serial number off the one stamped in the buttstock for rifle I was restoring at the time. The rifle was imported by SOG in Ohio and had been in circulation as a service rifle. The holes for the screws were still present on the top of the butt for the cheekpiece. The holes in the body were all present and not plugged. I had a Canadian cheekpiece that dropped right on and with a complete mount thanks to Roger, managed to bring it back to it's former glory. I still have it. I had one other that was noted by the owner in New Zealand as being one of the 3 sent to the UK for test trials. It was all matching including the scope but with no transit chest or CES. It resides in a collection in Virginia now.

I remember Joe Salter had a LB TP in the chest with matching scope and can at the Colorado Collectors show in May 2000. Price was $6000. It was unissued & pristine. Had a chance to fondle it for a few minutes. Long ago...

The Marine Corps museum has one they say was obtained for evaluation during the M40/M40A1 program.

I wonder if the "Colorado" Salter rifle was the one I looked at Tulsa many years ago. I don't remember details. I was asked to look at it, I already had one, and I don't remember details but I felt it had a few questionable things compared to my rifle.

There were 99 No4 T Long Branch rifles set up with the Lyman Alaskan scopes during WW2 at a time when the No32 scopes were not available. New Zealand must have got a few of them as I owned one a few years ago and I know of another with a fellow collector. There is also a photo of a NZ sniper at Cassino using one.

I think they subsequently upped the total to 350.

I think I saw that rifle - Simpson Limited had it for sale along with a number of Joe Salter snipers (several of which were real nice - I bought a L42 and Long Branch from the group). My recollection is that the scope did not match and that there were other problems with the rifle as well. However, if we are talking about the same rifle it is one of only two No. 32 TP Long Branch snipers I have seen offered for sale in the last 18-20 years.

The one that simpsons had was a put together.

I bought mine in the US one and a half year ago from a private collection.

Before mine belonged to Robert Hallam it resided at Collector's Source in Canada. I met Fred VanSickle a couple of times as he visited the UK from time to time. CS & Charnwood did a lot of business together back in the day.

I have one from the PMAL of Terni. I know of two others in private collections here in Italy and another one in the Terni's "museum of small arms". I think that Italy has been delivered about 8 - 10 TP during and after the II W.W.

I appreciate all the responses. It sounds as if there are about 10 matching TP rifles in private hands and about the same number of non-matching rifles with original components. I have a hard time getting excited about non-matching sniper rifles. However, based on the results of this thread I feel fortunate to have acquired a non-matching original TP.

My philosophy is that if it is that rare & it is genuine then I buy it (so long as the price is acceptable to me). If a better example comes along subsequently you can always buy it & move on your original purchase.

It was interesting to speak to some PPCLI vets and apparently during Korea they used type 67 scoped T's and the Lyman TP's.
No one seemed to recall the standard T with the mk 3 32 scope over there like the typical 90L.
Apparently HQ Co 2nd Battalion had a few TP's available for the use of troops who wanted to sign one out and take some ammunition "out" and do some plinking.
A fellow I know with another TP figured it is likely on its third barrel and mine is likely on at least its second. Mine has been refinished at some point and has a long butt with no idea how long the original butt was off the rifle.

Two turned up in the hands of the Northern Rangers about ten years back, when the CF was dredging the depots of No.4s, having sold or given the war reserve stocks to the USA to give to the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, so the story goes.

Regardless, wherever they went, they went, because we were reduced to buying them on the open market while generations of green-garbed bureaucrats in NDHQ kept the file on their replacement passing back and forth for a least three career cycles. LOL

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Two turned up in the hands of the Northern Rangers about ten years back, when the CF was dredging the depots of No.4s, having sold or given the war reserve stocks to the USA to give to the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, so the story goes.

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I talked with the LCMM a couple years ago about those. He said the depot informed him they still had them, so he issued them to the rangers. He told me they complained that the scopes were not graduated in Meters.

The #4 Enfields in CF service have now been given the code of 1B, which means they are being removed from service. The majority of the parts are also being given that code, unless those parts are also used on the Cno7 rifles. I would have to check and see if that applies to the few sniper setups that are still in service. Hopefully, on their withdrawal, they are offered to museums. I noticed the remaining EAL survival rifles are also now slated for disposal . There are still a little under 200 of then in the CF, although most are in the depot.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

My philosophy is that if it is that rare & it is genuine then I buy it (so long as the price is acceptable to me). If a better example comes along subsequently you can always buy it & move on your original purchase.

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Mine, too. Which is why I don't stress about bore condition, never have. I want a good bright bore, but if it doen't have one, I use that fact to get the price down some. :)

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Originally Posted by stencollector

I talked with the LCMM a couple years ago about those. He said the depot informed him they still had them, so he issued them to the rangers. He told me they complained that the scopes were not graduated in Meters.

The #4 Enfields in CF service have now been given the code of 1B, which means they are being removed from service. The majority of the parts are also being given that code, unless those parts are also used on the Cno7 rifles. I would have to check and see if that applies to the few sniper setups that are still in service. Hopefully, on their withdrawal, they are offered to museums. I noticed the remaining EAL survival rifles are also now slated for disposal . There are still a little under 200 of then in the CF, although most are in the depot.

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Hey Rob

Any chance you can get some pics of the EALs held in depot before they disappear?