In Case You Forgot Why We Love The Carbine

I don't pay any attention to my M1C anymore and I have been going through a period of sudden interest in .22 rifles and pistols. Plus I have also been taking my ARs and AK to the range, so I have been handling all kinds of long guns. Anyway, for some reason I got out my Carbine the other day, put it up to my shoulder and sighted on the mailbox. Wow. It felt so compact, light and just fit so well - I realized right then that I was most likely not going to dispose of it anytime soon and that if I did, I would really miss it. I have no plans to use it no matter what happens but I did have a case of HP ammo made for it 25 years ago (nickel brass/110gr jacketed HP bullet, Speer #1835) that functions fine in it. Whatever, this carbine is nothing to write home about, just a rebuild with late parts, but I guess its like an old mutt that you keep around. :)
Its easy to see why anyone that could get a carbine in WWII was crazy about it. Sure, just as many favored the rifle but the carbine was so much easier to live with day by day for those who didn't need the power of the rifle.
Now, with the popularity of the pistol-caliber carbine (PCC), the .30 Carbine round could possibly enjoy a new popularity if the platforms for using it existed. I've always liked the idea of an AR in the caliber and Olympic made a few. Still, no platform would have the feel of the original which is something unique in the world.

Yes, I'd like the AR in .30 Carbine. At least I'd like to ring it out. I'd think you'd want a mag housing that took the carbine mag, like the ones that insert for 9mm Colt mags... No reason with all the variables for AR calibers that a Carbine couldn't be popular.

The 30 Carbine is often compared to 357 Magnum. An AR in something 357-esque sounds pretty cool. Too few people these days (especially the AR type crowd) give the Carbine round a fair shake. It’s rifle sized fun for a pistol ammo price.
I regularly buy it at auction for about $12 for 50 rounds. You can even find it at the big box places for $15. You won’t hear any complaints from me for that price.

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Originally Posted by rcathey

I regularly buy it at auction for about $12 for 50 rounds. You can even find it at the big box places for $15. You won’t hear any complaints from me for that price.

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Brass cases or steel? - Bob

That's still about double what 9mm is going for now - just bought a PC Carbine in 9mm.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Brass cases or steel?

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Brass. Bought a load of American Eagle from an auction in TN a month or so ago. Got it cheaper than Wolf goes for at the store.
Armscor, Fiochi, Aguila...they're all around 15 or 16 a box.

.30 Carbine isn't available here at all in surplus or any reasonable prices either. I'd have to load it, as I always have.

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Originally Posted by rcathey

The 30 Carbine is often compared to 357 Magnum. An AR in something 357-esque sounds pretty cool. Too few people these days (especially the AR type crowd) give the Carbine round a fair shake. It’s rifle sized fun for a pistol ammo price.
I regularly buy it at auction for about $12 for 50 rounds. You can even find it at the big box places for $15. You won’t hear any complaints from me for that price.

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Not to get too far off the rails; how about an AR in 350 Legend?

[SHOT 2019] Winchesters NEW 350 Legend Cartridge

Why not...there's .50 Beowulf...why not a .35?

Growing up in the 60s and 70s, the carbine was the “ weapon of choice” for many families who kept one behind the bedroom door, because most wives and even the kids of the family could handle the recoil and it gave pretty reasonable amount of firepower for the day, if you weren’t “ aware” of the AR-15s and other assault rifles hitting the US market in those days.

Guess those days have passed?

Price probably has a lot to do with it. These days a cheap AR is only $400. I see even commercial carbines going for $500 or so at auction.

[QUOTE=That's still about double what 9mm is going for now - just bought a PC Carbine in 9mm.[/QUOTE]

I have a couple of AR 9 carbines, but I also have an M1 9mm carbine....not a Chiappa either. IJ manufactured about 2,000 of them in 85-86 and I have one and enough spare parts to keep it going. What a dream to shoot!

All the pistol calibers are fine but with the small .30 Carbine you get magnum pistol power (or greater - 1990 FPS and 950 ft lbs) plus higher magazine capacity. I was going to try to make the AR but just didn't. You would use a 16" .300 BLK barrel, a .300BLK upper or a whole .300BLK rifle. An insert would have to be made for the chamber. The .223/.300BLK bolt would be used. The hard part would be creating a magazine. My idea was cutting the top off an AR mag and fitting a carbine mag inside it. It would be easier if you could do without the bolt hold-open. Anyway, there would be a few minor details like which buffer and spring to use, but I think the average hobbyist could pull this off.

To be honest, I was getting a little bored of my .30 carbine. I was looking to "up grade" to a new AR piston gun. I was looking at the Sig 516 or 716. I read on the Sig forum, one guy with a 716 sent it back to the factory three times to get it to function 50 to 70 straight. So why pay $ 1,700 for a problem. Reading the Sig forum, the 516 was not much better.
They said the piston did keep the bolt carrier cleaner less cleaning but you had to clean the value at the piston. Why bother. I guess I am stuck with my old carbine.

I don't know about the SIGs but maybe you should get a Colt. I've never had any big problem with any AR including the ones I put together. Possibly a key to happiness with the AR platform is knowledge and experience in trouble-shooting them. Most problems are typical and have known solutions. Sometimes a little prep before shooting one for the first time like clean/lube and manually cycle it about 100 times can make a world of difference. It could be good to buy a known good one from somebody you know.

Some manufacturer actually made an “AR style” rifle chambered in 30-carbine I believe. I’d have to go dig that up I guess to prove it. AR’s are abundant just about everywhere at fire-sale prices. If one does not prefer a Colt, he can own a PSA for under $400. I have had very good luck with their 5.56 and 9mm carbines.

I found the info: Iver Johnson produced an AR prototype chambered in 30-carbine around 1984-1986. Olympic arms did so in 2004.

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Olympic made a few.

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Originally Posted by flydthecat

Some manufacturer actually made an “AR style” rifle chambered in 30-carbine I believe.

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He told you right there...back some two or three decades I think. Just the uppers (?) and I think there was a magazine housing block used so you could use Carbine mags.

"...110gr jacketed HP bullet..." With IMR4227 (using what just happens to be the current max load of it) that bullet will make a grapefruit sized hole in a ground hog. Wouldn't think twice about using it for deer(if our idiot government hadn't declared the Carbine to be evil, long ago.). Even though Speer markets it as a varmint bullet now. All that out of a 6 pound rifle that carries nicely for a guy using a map and/or a radio.

About three years ago, we moved temporarily to a place in the mountains with few neighbors and Coyote problems ( and 150=200 yard shots). I switched from a carbine as my HD weapon to a Mini-14. This caused me to venture into the world of Minis. I added a Mini-30 to my Mini-14. I really like Minis, The Mini-14 is an M1 Carbine with a stiffy, and the Mini-30 is an M1 Carbine on Viagra. I load for both.

Last year I ended up selling my M1 Carbine, a white bag Inland with almost black parkerizing. Well, fast forward to now, in June we are moving back to our house that is closer to town, houses on half acres lots. My three times rebuilt shoulder wont tolerate shotguns, and the 5.56 and 7,62x39 of my Minis is too much for HD here (plus no coyote that need whacking). I decided to sell/trade the Mini-14 to fund acquiring another M1 Carbine. I have a 5.56 AR15 (Colt 6420 clone), so I don't need two 5.56. This will give me M1 Carbine, AR15, and Mini-30.

I have no doubt of the carbine's lethality at appropriate ranges. My dad fought with an M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima, and he came back in one piece. While he never talked of combat, he did say he loved the carbine and it never failed him, not even the night of the big Banzai charge. His brothers also used M1 carbines elsewhere in the Pacific. I carried a M1 Carbine as an LEO trunk weapon, and also used it to drop a 200 pond Blacktail deer at 97 yards with a single heart/lung shot.

I briefly had a Ruger PC9 carbine, but it was a range toy. It would not do anything that an M1 Carbine would do better as an HD weapon. The PC9 was a couple pounds heavier than an M1!

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Originally Posted by rcathey

Price probably has a lot to do with it. These days a cheap AR is only $400. I see even commercial carbines going for $500 or so at auction.

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That is a very good point. Even in Commiefornia where ARs are evil, there is a proliferation of inexpensive "featureless" ARs and fixed mag types. When I was a cop in the 80s, I carried either an M1 Carbine or a Mini-14 as trunk weapon. AR15s were much more expensive, and seldom seen. Even in the 90s, I continued with M1 Carbines and Mini-14s, as ARs were still rare. I got a Colt SP1 AR-15 Carbine in 1987, but did not like carrying it, because it was so expensive. If I got in an officer involved shooting with it, I didn't want to chance loosing the Colt. In 1990, when I registered it under the original AW registration, I knew I would not be able to get another one, so it stayed in the safe.

Now, especially in Commiefornia, M1 Carbines, being naturally "featureless," semi auto, magazine fed rifles, bring premium prices. $700 for a Universal is not uncommon.

Mini 14 in .30 carbine

HighPoint carbine in .30 carbine

First one that builds it I buy it Ruger or High Point

Here is an earlier thread of mine with some excellent videos showing the M1 Carbines capability.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=50674

Its a dyeing gun in reality. Its a damn good cartridge. who doesn't want a pistol cartridge that can use light 110 grain bullets and generate as much muzzle energy as a 44 magnum with 240 grain soft points?

IN reality, the 300 black out has most likely replaced it in its given role, and the ability to use 220 grain bullets kind of makes you rethink heavy and long bullet versus short and fast...

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

Its a dyeing gun in reality.

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:rofl: Collectors will be knocking down doors for decades yet to get them...

I like it because it saved my life in VN, more than once.
Ammo was cheap for a while, then started to get pricey. Straight cases are easy to reload your empties with Dillon equipment. Berry makes a good bullet that sells at $91 for 1000 or 9.1 cents each. No reason to run out of ammo.

I also like the Rainier plated bullets, just a s cheap. 14.6 grains of WW296, and they print the same POA/POI as the 110 Remingtons.

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

Its a dyeing gun in reality. Its a damn good cartridge. who doesn't want a pistol cartridge that can use light 110 grain bullets and generate as much muzzle energy as a 44 magnum with 240 grain soft points?

IN reality, the 300 black out has most likely replaced it in its given role, and the ability to use 220 grain bullets kind of makes you rethink heavy and long bullet versus short and fast...

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If 7.62x39 did not replace the .30 Carbine, neither will .300BLK, which is most useful with a suppressor in the subsonic loading. As a full-speed rifle round, .300 and 7.62x39 are ballistically very similar.

I am a fan of the 7.62x39 round, even though I am not a fan of the AK platform (even though I have had a bunch of them through the years) To me the Mini-30 is the perfect platform for the 7.62x39. The carbine is about 5.5 pounds, whereas the Mini-30 runs about 7.0 pounds. To me, I'd rather tote the M1 Carbine in the woods any day! BTW, I would love to get a walnut stock for the Mini-30 some day.....

M1 carbine:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../hwUVGmX-1.jpg

Ruger MIni-30:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9GTNre0-1.jpg

The 300 B.O. has more versatility than the carbine, and with light bullets, a bit more power. But it generally doesn't have the "curb appeal" of that old war horse. I have both and love both of them, but there is still something about the feel of that old walnut stock. Plastic just doesn't feel quite right.