Extreme Linseeding

G'day there, just an idea I had a little while ago to get linseed back into really dried up old stocks.

I was thinking that rather than applying 56 coatings of Linseed, letting it sit, then wiping it off (Though this does wonders on removing gunk from the visible surface of the wood), I could make up tubes and fill them with linseed for my fore-ends and handguards and so on to sit in for a certain amount of time to try and let the linseed soak in on its own. Then just wipe it all down and be on my merry way.

IS THIS TOO EXTREME? If it is for old stocks I might keep it purely for axe handles and the like. Just seems like an easier more effective way to rejuvenate the old wood on my rifles.

Try anything once Nijal and go from there all us fence sitters will await the results, I cannot see it damaging it like perhaps soaking it in water as it will only take so much linseed oil wont it.:confused:

Pretty much my thoughts exactly Cinders. I have a few sporter stocks I try all my repairs on before working on my nice rifles so I will use them first, but still figured it was worth asking.

Won't the uncured linseed oil rot the wood?

The whole idea behind applying a bit and letting it cure for a long time between applications is to prevent uncured oil from ending up under cured oil.

During their service life visits to workshops, wood was submerged in a warmed tank of raw linseed oil, sometimes for 24 hours and then removed and left to drip dry. It won't damage anything. That's what was done.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

During their service life visits to workshops, wood was submerged in a warmed tank of raw linseed oil, sometimes for 24 hours and then removed and left to drip dry. It won't damage anything. That's what was done.

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Sorry, just reread your post where you clearly said raw linseed.

Yes, boiled linseed was never used. It has chemicals in it to make it dry quicker. I steer clear of it. I just ordered a new gallon of RLO. It's out there for those who think it isn't available.

Yeah I never touch boiled linseed with my rifles anymore, but lucky for us in aus there is a company that makes and sells RLO in decently large bottles. Hopefully this might save me some time. I'll post up results on a sporter stock when I get around to sorting it out.

PVC pipe with one end glued/capped the other end with glued on threaded connection that a cap can be screwed on.
Spray painting it black helps keep the RLO warm.
Afterward I collect the drained off RLO and strain it back into the tube.... Add a light sprinkle of Mineral spirits on the surface to keep it from skimming. Cap screwed back on and stood upright until needed again.

I make sure all my work is complete on the stock or HG's before dropping in the oil tube.

To Draw oil grime out:
I've used a Black tube like this to put stocks and HG's in to bake in the sun light to pull old oil from those stocks that never seem to release years of old oils, cosmo and grease.. etc.
I just wrap the wood in paper towels, using masking tape to keep the paper towels on tightly before dropping in the tube.

Good luck

"...does wonders on removing gunk..." It doesn't actually. Just moves it around. And 56 coating on gunked up wood just gunks it up more. The old oil needs to be removed and the wood cleaned first.
Raw Linseed can take a week or more to dry. BLO dries and gives a harder finish. BLO used during W.W. I and II wasn't the same stuff we have. It was literally boiled and filtered.
None of that will stop the endless arguing about which to use. Using pure Tung Oil, not Tung Oil Finish, is better anyway. PTO gives a hard, water proof finish that brings the grain out.

On USGI stocks only RAW LINSEED oil was used. As stated a new stock was dipped into warm linseed oil and then it dripped dried. NO boiled linseed oil was used on USGI stocks and NO TUNG oil was used.

painter, you speak my mind entirely, to the dot even. Glad someone has tried it before me.

Sunray, you tell me that but I have half a dozen stocks that have gone from dark, grimy, and dry to quite pretty, using just elbow grease and RLO. Seems more effective even than turps and the like. If the wood is meant to be red but its brown and icky, then keeping scrubbing with linseed, buff it off, and then it comes back a bit more red, do that several times and it looks great. There is quite a lot of argument isn't there? RLO works fine for everything I do, and cleaning it is just another coat of RLO and a buff. Easy peasy. For me it seems to only take a night in the safe to almost entirely soak in after I scrub it down.

There's no real argument that I can see. It's just a case of doing it as original or not. To each his own I reckon. The original finish, (raw linseed), will oxidize with age and produce the dark, reddish tint, doesn't have harmful chemicals in it and if you learn to apply it properly, doesn't really take any longer than using any of the other finishes. The wood of a properly finished military rifle should feel just a bit tacky when it's fresh out of the workshop. The tackiness won't last long with handling, use and care.

Overnight in the hot-to-touch linseed bath was the ONLY thing that would protect the fore-ends, butts and handguards of our weaponry in the tropics. Overnight bath and lines of them left hanging up to drip into a tray. Then the tray tipped back into the oil tank. That and phosphate/sunkorite were the only known protection so far as we were concerned

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Overnight in the hot-to-touch linseed bath was the ONLY thing that would protect the fore-ends, butts and handguards of our weaponry in the tropics. Overnight bath and lines of them left hanging up to drip into a tray. Then the tray tipped back into the oil tank. That and phosphate/sunkorite were the only known protection so far as we were concerned

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Peter, I assume the bath treated multiple stock parts, so what was the process to ensure previously hand fitted parts on a rifle did not get mixed up with another rifle? The fore-end was numbered, but what about the butt, and the hands guards etc? Did they get marked in some way or were they held or bound together or was it a case of re-assembling and re-fitting component parts from scratch again?

With interchangeable parts such as Bren woodwork, rifle handguards, pistol side grips etc there really wasn't a problem. Fore-ends and butts would be wired together and numbered with the usual identity discs that we'd use over and over again. No5 fore-ends would have the troublesome nose cap removed, the hole pegged and rounded off. The shotgun butts and fore-ends had to be scraped down first to get rid of the commercial varnish and have sling swivels fitted on some of them. But most times, they'd been through before and were back to bare wood. The mystery was why the special forces shotguns always had string instead of proper slings!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Sunray

The old oil needs to be removed and the wood cleaned first.

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Agreed. You can't polish grime.

When I bought my ex-Indian Martini-Henry it stank of rancid butter and was weeping oil. Seriously, from the smell, I suspect it may have been dunked in ghee or a similar substance derived from animal fat.

Normally, I recommend natural turpentine for removing grime: first applied by itself, and later with an increasing proportion of linseed oil. In this case, I had to be rather more drastic, and kept on wiping it down with acetone (windows wide open!) until the weeping stopped and the smell disappeared. And then the turpentine/linseed oil procedure, ending with IMHO the best linseed oil one can get - comestible linseed oil that, after being stored in the shade for more than 2 decades, now runs like comb honey. Applied dropwise on a cloth moistened with turpentine. Smells good, looks good.

It may not have been 56 applications, but certainly double-figures!

Brian, would it be possible for you to share what brand of RLO you prefer.....thank you....regards...alex

I'd been using Crown brand for a number of years. When I went shopping on the internet a few weeks ago, I found Sunnyside brand. I can't tell the difference. It was $41 USD for a gallon which will last me a long time. Make sure it's the pure 100% raw stuff.

thank you, thank you....regards...alex

As I gather from vintage specifications for SMLE manufacture, the finished woodwork, awaiting fitting was STORED in drums of raw linseed oil, often for months. And this was after the raw flitches had been air dried for YEARS.

The only way you would get more linseed into the furniture is with a vacuum tank. In these, the "article" is sealed in the tank, the air pumped out and the vacuum held for a specified period,

Then, the linseed oil is let in. Because most of the moisture / oil etc in the wood has been drawn out via the vacuum pump, the new oil penetrates quite deeply.

You can substitute epoxy or polyester resins for the linseed and end up with a wood-fibre reinforced plastic stock that still looks like wood but is so rigid it will almost ring when struck. It will also be VERY resistant to dents, rot, borers and warping in the rain. NOT a cheap option, but do-able.

Boy, the BLO/RLO bun fight never ends, I bet people will still be arguing about the relative merits of both 100 years from now!

My view, Raw linseed for military rifles and boiled linseed (built up to a disired finish) on shotguns and sporters.

Clean up the surface with red scotchbite and de-greaser.

This gets the crud out and opens up the grain, apply coats of RLO as required and finally buff up to a nice semi Matt finish with a micro fiber cloth.

That's my approach to military rifles, if it's NOS wood with no or very little oil in it, then cut the first coat of RLO 50/50 with turps, this acts as a thinning agent and rapid catalyst, so the first coats draw deep into the wood and gives lovely a visual depth to the final finish.

Then back to normal viscosity oil for the reminder of the job.

As stated by the CMP 1. Nature of Original USGI Wood Finishes

From the Trapdoor Springfield 45/70 era through the end of the M-14 era, the essential nature of manufacturer applied wood finishes included linseed oil, tung oil, boiled linseed oil, and what might be called boiled tung oil. While used by the Armed Forces of the United States, the rifles were usually cleaned and protected by the soldiers, sailors, and Marines using boiled linseed oil.

As to the M1 Garand Rifle, it is believed that the original manufacturer’s finish utilized boiled linseed oil into which the stocks were dipped and then dried. Subsequently, what might be called boiled tung oil was used instead. The boiled tung oil was a mixture of real tung oil, a carrier or solvent such as mineral spirits or turpentine, and driers similar to those added to boiled linseed oil to help cure the oil.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Clean up the surface with red scotchbite and de-greaser.

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I never found the need to go any color scotchbrite route or any abrasive at all on stocks that have seen normal duty. A simple but slow process of 91% or better Isopropyl Alcohol in a pan, then brushed up and down the stock with a firm paintbrush and after a rub down using a rag dripping with Isopropyl Alcohol is all that is needed. You can refinish with RLO the next day - or steam out dents and apply the RLO. Bubba Stocks, on the other hand, thats a whole different story.... especially the ones covered with 10 coats of Poly.

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Originally Posted by M1 C FAN

While used by the Armed Forces of the United States, the rifles were usually cleaned and protected by the soldiers, sailors, and Marines using boiled linseed oil.

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Hmmmm. Did the person from the CMP site a source? I only ask because in all the books I have there is not a word about BLO with it comes to the Krag, Model of 1917, and the 1903 Springfield (I don't own a Garand yet so haven't collected old books on them)

Manual of Military Training By Major Jas. A. Moss Copyright 1914 page 557 "The stock and hand guard should receive a light coat of raw linseed oil once a month, or after any wetting from rain, dew, etc, -- this should be thoroughly rubbed in with the hand"

TM 9-1270 War Department Technical Manual U.S. Rifles, Cal. 30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3 and M1903A4 20 January 1944. Page 104, " About once a month apply OIL, linseed, raw, with a CLOTH, wiping wood."

TM 9-280 War Department Technical Manual Caliber .22 Rifles, All Types 16 March 1944. Page 93, "Wipe off the exterior of the rifle with a dry cloth to remove dampness, dirt, and perspiration. About once a month, apply OIL, linseed, raw, to the wood with a clean dry cloth or the palm of the hand."

Privates' Manual By Capt. James A Moss Copyright 1910. Page 48, ""The stock and hand guard should receive a light coat of raw linseed oil once a month, or after any wetting from rain, dew, etc, -- this should be thoroughly rubbed in with the hand"

--- I have more old books, but it just repeats the same... ---

So if these were coated in anything other than RLO I don't thank that up into 1944 they would be using RLO on top of other finishes. Just my 2Cents on the subject.

I just remembered I have the FM 23-8 for the M-14 December 1959. The M14 would be the last wooden stock and even it doesn't have anything but RLO

"Raw linseed oil should be frequently applied to the wooden parts to keep out moisture and prevent swelling."

"Wooden parts must be kept oiled with raw linseed oil to prevent drying"

"c. Preservatives. A medium corrosion-preventive compound is used to protect the metal parts of the rifle during storage, and raw linseed oil is applied to the wooden parts to prevent their drying."

So I don't know where the CMP author of the article you read got his reference material.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

I never found the need to go any color scotchbrite route or any abrasive at all on stocks that have seen normal duty. A simple but slow process of 91% or better Isopropyl Alcohol in a pan, then brushed up and down the stock with a firm paintbrush and after a rub down using a rag dripping with Isopropyl Alcohol is all that is needed. You can refinish with RLO the next day - or steam out dents and apply the RLO. Bubba Stocks, on the other hand, thats a whole different story.... especially the ones covered with 10 coats of Poly.

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The great thing about red scotchbrite is that correctly used, it will only remove the old built up crap from the grain and won't affect edges, markings or anything else.

This built up crap is a mix of compacted skin oils, gun lubricant, soil etc.

It simply allows the RLO a good unhindered and even entry to draw deep into the woodwork and do its job.

After all, you wouldn't wax polish a car covered in mud!

I'm avoiding this thread on purpose but I thought I'd post these pictures.
This is what it looks like when one gobs BLO on a stock that will take no more and leaves it for weeks to polymerize. This was the owner's Grandfather's gun. He was very distraught but I fixed him up.
Attachment 103204
Attachment 103205

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

I'm avoiding this thread on purpose but I thought I'd post these pictures.
This is what it looks like when one gobs BLO on a stock that will take no more and leaves it for weeks to polymerize. This was the owner's Grandfather's gun. He was very distraught but I fixed him up.

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A common mistake, I made that one when I was 15, a lesson learnt well! I prepared my first restored rifle woodwork, smothered it in BLO and left it for a few days .... came back to a rock hard mess and had to start again....

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Originally Posted by usabaker

Hmmmm. Did the person from the CMP site a source?

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The CMP website was my source. As far as real field usage my Uncle who fought with the 82nd airborne used to tell us they would use anything including grease from a Sherman tank for a rifle stock. In the field anything worked.

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Originally Posted by M1 C FAN

The CMP website was my source.

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What I meant was did the author on the CMP site a source for the information he was convaying. I would be interested where he got the information.

The PVC pipe "gun tub" idea works. Being "tall and thin", they don't take up much floor-space. You can strap them onto the workshop sack-truck / trolley and wheel them around when full. Great for getting maximun solar warming; quick to get back inside when darkness or rain, etc, are imminent.

I built a few, one for metal parts and one for woodwork and one long enough to take some long-ish complete rifles. Soaking a complete rifle in Kerosene may seem extreme, but it gets into "seized" threads and eases disassembly, greatly reducing damage or breakage of screws, etc.

If you are patient, one of the best "metal cleaners / de-rusters" is ordinary molasses, as found at livestock feed suppliers. Caveat: Do NOT immerse zinc or aluminium alloy components in molasses and forget them for a month or so.

Having PVC tubes with airtight seals keeps the smell of sundry chemicals from irritating other members of the household.