Hi all,
Truly shocked to see 49 dead (so far) in the dreadful New Zealand shooting, does anyone know if the Firearms used we're legally held by the perpetrators?
My thoughts go out to all our Milsurps New Zealand friends.
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Hi all,
Truly shocked to see 49 dead (so far) in the dreadful New Zealand shooting, does anyone know if the Firearms used we're legally held by the perpetrators?
My thoughts go out to all our Milsurps New Zealand friends.
Unsure at this stage, but it will eventually come to light. I expect a tightening of gun laws to follow.
Sadly this is what envariably follows these types of incidents in small countries such as ours, serious upheaval of the Firearms Licencing Laws which drastically effects everybody, caused by a hapless ignorant few
I read the gunman's manifesto...but could not bring myself to watch the shooting video. Not going to comment on the manifesto beyond the author was seriously delusional in his beliefs. It's a sad and stupid event!
There is a saying from a comic.....you can't fix stupid.
I don't want to co-opt this tragedy (because, that is what the incident in New Zealand is for sure) to further any agenda I may have, but as a firearms enthusiast I know that the tub thumpers will be trying to turn me and kindred spirits into a social pariahs.
Unfortunately, our politicians don't believe, or won't believe, that you can't legislate against insanity. Guns kill, people don't kill. Ban guns. Guns equal power. Ban guns.
It doesn't matter if the firearms are legal or illegal, gun control advocates (i.e.: ban all guns, regardless) believe all citizens should be stripped of the right to own firearms, and want to ban all sports that require firearms. However, the politicians insist that the police and army remain armed so that the citizenry can't protest against unpopular (but necessary!!!) laws.
The Police issued the shooter a Firearms License in November 2017 after he came here from Australia. I saw three firearms, an AR15 in 'A' category configuration, a .22 Marlin semi-auto, and a pump action shotgun, all of which he could legally purchase. The AR15 was illegally fitted with a 30 round magazine ('A' category has a limit of 7 rounds). We had a shooting here in 1992 (13 killed) and the laws were changed "to prevent this happening again". A whole new licensing regime was introduced with increased Police vetting of applicants before a license would be issued. This affected thousands of legitimate NZ firearms owners and has achieved absolutely nothing, as we pointed out to them in 1992. Nutters are a fact of life! This tragedy will create more useless laws that will only affect the law-abiding. There will be renewed calls for universal registration, and an attempt to ban all semi-autos. This will cost the country millions if it goes through (the Government is legally bound to compensate at full market value if they take away lawfully purchased items) and solve absolutely nothing!
Woodsy,
I wish you all the luck in the world, but they promised it here but it never materialised. They paid a portion of their true value on the pistol front.
I am so sorry for your country and its people at this time, to have suffered in this way, we are surrounded by so much ignorance on all sides, its a real shame we can't all get on together.
Good luck with whatever follows.
Setting this tragic barbaric act aside for one moment, I am truly sorry that this raving lunatic was a licence holder, with legally held Firearms.
I fear our New Zealand cousins are in for one hell of a fight to keep semi autos of any type.
The public backlash will, without doubt be severe, with crys of 'somthing must be done'....
Not wrong there Mate. The Kiwi media is already reporting calls for more restrictive gun laws.
The opposite should be done. Laws should be made less restrictive and allow ordinary people the use of firearms to defend themselves. Google the Saint James Church massacre to see how even just one man with a 38spcl can stop an attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
no do the actual sensible thing and get rid of the REASON for this.
Unfortunately, instead of a carfully thought out and considerd look at the current legislation, followed by any changes and tweaks needed.
There will probably be a rapid cull of semi automatic firearms (and collectors automatics) across the board.
Overwhelming political and public pressure will ensure this unfortunately...
Same as here in the UK and Australia.
We were lucky to escape with .22 LR and .22 WMR semi autos, but we lost our pistols too.
Nothing good ever comes from 'knee-jerk' legislation. The law-abiding citizenry always suffers in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
It's so hard to imagine someone could Shoot and Kill a 3 year old boy, along with the other 49 victims. Though throughout history whole towns and villages were destroyed over the course of days or weeks. Today it seems anywhere people gather is a potential target for another lunatic.
As a youngster I remember My Father used to say that we needed:
To bring back Public Hangings like the ole days when people would dress up and bring the family to town.
And that it should be required that everyone could use and carry a firearm to protect themselves and others from injury.
He'd say no matter what position someone may hold in this world never underestimate the level of Evil a man could be capable of. You used them by walking them out to be hung from the gallows so that those among the crowds who witnessed a hanging would think more than twice about committing the same crime.
Being so young and hearing that from my Father made me feel ashamed of the hate it seemed he had in his heart.
It wasn't until I was a grown man in my 30's that he shared with me seeing the Japanese publicly hang village officials accused of helping the Allies there in the Philippines during WWII. Some were hung after seeing their families be-headed.
My Father was teamed with 2 Aussies and stayed on the move living in the bush. Sending out messages about troop strength and movement. Some of the Filipino villagers who were killed had been the same ones that would stash food and fresh water for them when possible. It took years to gather that much from him.
It's events like this that bring his thoughts back to me.
Bless those that have suffered loss. Help Protect those who need it.
The news media is having a field-day here at present. The evening news is full of anti-gun 'experts' full of mindless and totally ineffectual 'solutions', and the usual raft of populist politicians opening their mouths just wide enough to put both feet in! Whatever legislative changes come out of this, they will have to go through 3 readings in parliament with consultation and submissions called for. That is when the cooler heads will have a chance to keep things to a sensible outcome. The local rugby team, the Canterbury 'Crusaders' is now talking about changing their name to something 'less offensive' to Muslims. God preserve us! The Canterbury 'Petals' perhaps? Mass hysteria is taking over, a bit like the Salem Witch Trials, with law-abiding shooters being the target. Meanwhile, the gun stores are selling out of semi-autos!
Meantime over here, the news reports that your AG is vowing to ban all semi autos... I suggested that would be a tragedy but what about the FA and suppressors? Over here they can't fathom. Sounds like a lot of slanted half as$ed stories are escaping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
Anyway, good luck with your struggle.
To bad there wasn't a couple guys like this one..
Graphic video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGif...ature=youtu.be
I Googled this, Thx to MSW2
Our AG was quickly reminded of his lack of powers to make such decisions and he very quickly (within two hours) publicly recanted on his previous comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Good luck with it Woodsy, our Australian shooting friends were hung out to dry, us too, in the UK.
Populist politics will see vote winning bans as a short cut to/or staying in office, and milk this particular cow for all it's worth.
I wish you all the very best of luck with the rabid anti gun storm that's heading your way, I really do mate....
I have to say, while I'm not happy at not being allowed center fire semi-automatic rifles in the UK - I have no issues with the FAC vetting and renewal process in general, with good reason shown, background checks, doctors consulted, Club secratry consulted and all firearms registered with agreed ammunition limits etc.
It's not easy to get an FAC in the UK, that's just fine by me, as it would give me nightmares if some of the raving idiots who live around me had easy access to firearms!
All semi-auto sales pulled today from online auctioneer 'Trademe' for the time being. Too bad if you want a new shotgun for the up coming duck season or have a rabbit problem.
"We are halting the sale of semi-automatic weapons while we wait for more clarity from the Government.
We have listened to public sentiment following Friday’s terrorist attack in Christchurch and decided to remove all semi-automatic firearms sales and parts associated with those weapons today".
Kiwi,
Do you have to be a member of an authorised gun club in New Zealand to be able to own firearms there, or can you apply without it?
It is a sad state of affairs when the actions of one deranged individual will affect millions of gun owners around the word and not a peep about funding for mental heath problems.
Much like our misguided clowns in charge, "We'll keep this from ever happening again"...and try to use a paintbrush effect to fix it. Mind you, it's never about that, it's just a good reason to try again to pull the teeth of the dog so it can't bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.e moose
Spot on Jim ...Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Standard A Category licence requirements are 16 years or older, secure lock up for firearms in house, police check and basic interview by arms officer and a referee check of one family member and one person outside of family unit. No need to be a gun club member. Normally have to have a reason for owning: hunting or target shooting is sufficient reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Pistol ownersip does require membership to a club. Don't think the collector or MSSA category licences require membership of any sort.
I go my firearms licence when I turned 16 before I got my Drivers licence.
Obviously this is a tragic event of huge proportion for the population of New Zealand. It is also obvious from the international press that the anti gun lobby are loving every minute of it.
But why do Gouvernment's only react to gun crime; instead of all violent crime by the mentally deranged.
I mention this because after the Bataclan attack in Paris; there were the same noises regarding banning weapons; even though they were illegally owned. But a couple of weeks ago 10 people died and over 30 injured when a mentally unstable women set fire to multiple floors of her apartment building at 1am. That building is 120 yards from where we live.
I have not heard any press asking for a ban on matches.
When the nutter drove a truck through the crowd in Nice; there was no call for banning Truck's.
It is a sad state of affairs indeed.
Our condolences to the families of the victim's, and also a wish that common sense prevail's regarding the gun laws affecting 1.5 million law abiding New Zealanders.
As Kiwi has mentioned, club membership is not required. What a lot of NZ people don't realise is that we have a right to own firearms enshrined in our legislation, just like the US 2nd Amendment. Applications for a Firearms Licence in NZ are on a 'shall issue' basis and can only be refused where there is clear evidence that an applicant is unfit (mentally, criminal, or criminal association). The Bill of Rights 1688 is an integral part of NZ legislation, removal of which would also take away freedom of speech, free elections, jury trials, etc. The clause containing the words"... may keep arms for their defence…" actually has a higher precedence that the other rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
That's good Woodsy, according to the news here, your govenment is planning a serous move against firearms as early as next week!Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
If they can just change you legislation at whim (without time to even debate it), it's a very black day for NZ democracy.
i truely don't understand how someone could do what he did. that being said in my eyes he has voided his right to live. (and to humane treatment)
i would say he needs to be made an example of... in a truely historical fashion. drawn and quatered or perhaps burnt at the stake.
no religious rights before execution, remains ground up and added to petfood or dumped in various landfulls. no consecrated ground, no place to commemorate him.
basically if he is religious, treat him in a way he will not be able to ascend in the afterlife.
also ban using his name, instead make up a derogatory nickname that belittles his manhood and intelligence.
if you take away the promises of a good afterlife, the fame and the glory from acts of hate and leave nothing but the promise of pain and humiliation i think you would despell a reasonable percentage of those who would commit such crimes. not all but some at least.
A lot of the trouble we see in the world could be eased through better education and better parenting skills.
On the BBC (international) news on Sunday night, there was an anti gun citizen in Christchurch, complaining about a billboard advertising air rifles. It showed a father with his kids shooting metal animal gongs. It promoted getting outside with your kids.
This guy was ranting about how bad an advert it was. I disagree ! Seeing a father spend time with his kid's, and teach them responsible use of firearms shooting targets is much better than leaving them alone on a computer playing at chopping up zombies or god knows what else.
Absolutely Shaun, you can unfortunately expect the BBC to 'selectively' interview people to fit in with their liberal London centric ethos...Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Three
The days of the BBC being impartial are long gone.
Yep........let alone bother to get their facts right.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
They did an article today about how UK, Australia and Canada have revised their firearms laws and how we're now all so much safer in these countries...:rolleyes:
Whoever wrote it even managed to state that the law change in UK after Hungerford included the banning of semi-auto shotguns :banghead:
The thing is, muslims kill Christians, and any other religion,, left and right as PART of their religious beliefs. For them, its "convert or kill, and those who convert last lead the charge against the next group of non believers"Quote:
Originally Posted by henry r
This is the mosque of "peaceful religion" that trained the Charlie Hebdo terrorists. Read THAT one up..
How do you stand with so many Christians being captured and beheaded by ISIS for news segments on Al Jazeera News? How do you feel about that one, or do you find that ok?
How do you feel about ISIS and other Islamic terror groups that use 10 year old kids as suicide bombers? Or poor farm animals as suicide bombers?
How do you feel about the PRIVATE school in Germany that was forced to end 600 years of CHRISTMAS tradition because an Islamic student felt "threatened" by charoling?
Pocket shaver, I feel you should balance your argument by maybe reading a little more history and maybe travelling a bit more to meet different cultures.
The fact is there are good and bad people in every culture and religion.
Guys,
Lets not let this very sad incident committed by one man, throw up devisive "Political" or "Religious" arguments on this site, which as a reminder, is against our rules.
We can however, debate sensibly, the unecessary incursions on firearms law which will inevitably follow by New Zealand, but I am sure it won't be that draconian in the long run as NZ has historic laws they need to take into account, and not make knee jerk reactions which could have far reaching problems later, and provide a balanced approach to the issues raised!;)
Absolutely Gil, let's put a line under the religious aspects of this.
Pocketshaver, blind hatred and man's inhumanity to his fellow man are as old as time itself.
From Hitler's National Socialism, to the Khmer Rouge and Islamic State, evil always finds a rallying call to hide behind.
Just a minute chaps, before you're quick to chastise, there are many silent people on the forum, not me you understand, but probably others who agree or even semi agree with Pocket shavers principal points. And he has the same rights to speak and say as the rest of us. Not put in the diplomatic way as many would like. But he has said it. And we should read it.
But now the retribution of the innocents starts. It's called 'collective punishment' of a hefty gun ban of some sort in NZ. They will insist that it's not punishment or chastisement of any sort. But call it what you like and say it as many times as you want, it IS punishment imposed on the otherwise law abiding
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague after the Charlie Hebdo incident. He believed the cartoons were offensive.
So I explained that freedom of speech is important and that millions of people had already given their lives so we can enjoy that freedom.
That if you sacrifice the right for Charlie Hebdo to publish what they want; then you also sacrifice your right to read your koran or bible etc.
So I explained that true freedom is basically "I defend his right to religious expression and by the same rule also defend my right to think it's crap!"
Unfortunately not everyone finds it easy to allow other peoples points of view to contradict their own; which is a shame.
I sincerely hope our New Zealand friends will be able to maintain their firearms without over reactive interference.
I do little else other than read history. I have also spent four months in Saudi Arabia. There are indeed good and bad people in every culture and of every religion but Islam is not a religion of peace, it never has been and most likely never will be. Islam was not widely accepted at the time of it's founding. On the contrary, the neighboring tribes rejected it outright. Since conversion was out, conquest was begun and it has been that way ever since. What is now Islamic territory in the Middle East and North Africa was all Christian before these military conquests. The crusades, contrary to Muslim beliefs, were not to destroy Islam but an attempt to recovery territory lost in previous wars. It was religious in nature, that part is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Three
Since the NZ attack, carried out by what I've heard was an atheist, there have been several retaliatory attacks on Christians throughout the globe. There is also an extermination of Christians going on in Africa right now that is getting almost no media coverage.
Aside from ISIS and other groups in Africa and the Philippines, which are carrying out the traditional conquest type attacks, Islam today is pursuing a third option which is open to them. Taking over by a slow process of infiltrating a society and increasing their population until they are in the majority and in control. This is happening on a huge scale in Europe and to a lesser extent the US and NZ. But make no mistake, the end result is the same, world conquest. And they do not tolerate other religions once in control.
30three, you should take your own advice and study the history of the Muslim people and their radical Islamic religion. Better yet move to Iran or Syria while you do it so you can have a first hand look at what it's like to live under Islamic (sharia) law.
mrclark303, you've likely heard the old saying "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were able to rise to power because "Good men did nothing" until it was almost too late and that led to the deaths of an estimated 70-80 million people.
Islam is the world's fastest growing religion with approx. 1.5 billion followers that are becoming more and more radicalized every day.
There's 4 million in th U.S. and some imams are already holding rallys (California comes to mind)where the crowds chant "death to Israel and death to America".)
There's an Islamist imam in Washington D.C. that's calling for an Islamic caliphate in north America by 2050.
Another old saying, "The best way to destroy any organization is from within".
The radical muslims have made good on their vow to take over America by gaining control of the government by running for public office and winning in record numbers.
IIRC there was something on the order of 128 muslims elected to government in 2018, from city level all the way up to congress.
Just for the record I DO NOT hate or have any ill will towards Muslim people because they are human beings just like myself. I certainly DO NOT condone the actions of the nut job who committed the horrendous act against them (muslims) in NZ. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families as well as the shooter and his family.
On the other hand I DO NOT think very highly of their Islamic religious doctrine that seeks to destroy or enslave all who come under it's control. It IS NOT the peaceful religion it's claimed to be.
The Koran contains over 100 passages to kill infidels and "people of the Book", i.e.Christians and Jews.
So, if good men continue to do nothing by turning a blind eye to the spread of radical Islam in the western world it will very soon be too late and we will find ourselves governed by sharia laws.
The anti gun crowd is playing right into their hands.
Mods, if you wish to ban me over this post that's fine. Just be sure that everybody know it was because I spoke the truth because it needed to be said.
Some are predicting that France will be the first Islamic Republic in Western Europe. Time will tell. Religion in all of Europe is in decline with the exception if Islam which is skyrocketing.