LE Question

I recently obtained this rifle and broke it down for inspection. Something I noticed on the action body left side near the ring was a bright spot. The polished area is right where the rail meets the ring and are well below the wood line.

The same surface has a corresponding location on the wood that appears to result from the manufacturing process so nothing alarming in that respect as far as I can tell.

When I looked further and towards the main thrust of my question is, does the area towards the ring in the same vicinity and the front action screw reinforce appear to be polished further (tool marks) than what would ordinarily appear on this sort of rifle when it was manufactured and is it something to be concerned about.

I have attached a few pictures of the opposite side that shows tool marks that would normally be seen. The port side just seems to be smoothed over with a die grinder or other method. Other features of the rifle appear to check out satisfactorily from other information I have gleaned from the site.

This rifle appears to have been together for some time and is in good order with normal wear due to its age. Thanks for any information anyone can provide before I light this thing off.

Attachment 99392Attachment 99393Attachment 99394Attachment 99395Attachment 99396

Is that a 'double F' inside the circle ?
An Irish Rifle ?
Not a lot of them about.

Yes there are two double circle F's one on the body and the barrel. Being in the US I do not understand the significance of the marks. The bolt and body numbers match but have been struck out and re-numbered for some reason. The nose-cap does not match it's in the same font as the body # but about 100 less with a "U" above it.

Not being entirely hands on familiar with a rifle of this type I picked up an Indian drill rifle to completely disassemble and see if it was something I wanted to dive into. Prior to this endeavor I fiddled about with a no4 re-barreled it, fitted it and did function checks with info from the sight, became intrigued with the design after following all of Capt. Mainwaring's explicit instructions to the best of my ability lest someone else should stumble across it one day.

Apart from the question regarding the smoothing out of the described area and the age I am not as astute as most on here regarding the various markings on the rifle. That same area appears to have been finished at the same time as the rest it just seemed a bit unusual so I came here for advice. Not very many in my neck of the woods know much about this type with the exception of destroying them for other purposes.

Other info is, bolt head has .003 gap on a PPU averaged case rim, bolt head does not overturn, lugs have an even pattern after applying prussian blue, upper handguard appear to be a different species of wood, there is a stacking or piling swivel, no butt stock disc soft or punky wood, faint traces of red paint on either side of the fore sight blade for an unknown reason and barrel has distinct bright rifling with a little wear in the throat and more prominent of course at the muzzle. Pull off's are good with no gooned surfaces and safety mechanism operates as it should.

I also cannot detect any import marks which I have generally seen on almost every type of non US arm that I run across unless I'm missing something somewhere. I bought it from an older fellow who never used it on the east coast so it may have come across the sea well before my time. I'm going to go and try it out while the sun is out on the other side of my target.

Thanks for looking and any other info somebody could provide.

I’m hardly an expert, but it looks to me like a welded spot. Therefore I would be very, very careful about shooting it. Looks like a job for Captain Laidler!

Me either so I stripped it, re-examined it in natural light, put a few in the ground with PPE. Cases looked OK with no apparent abnormalities so I put it back together and went over to the farm to try it out with a partner. Post op checks were ok with the exception of the feed mechanism a little rough and ejection a little lazy once the empty was clear of the chamber. From a rested position you can see an improvement in the group as confidence grew. Lands and grooves at the muzzle became distinct with a few shots. Now I know why folks like these rifles so much, recoil was a little more noticeable than my no 4 or so it seemed. I'll wait to see if there is a cause of further alarm regarding my original question, but for now it's full stop, it would be shame if it's wanked. At this point I do not have any further cause for alarm unless I can learn some more.
Thanks for looking.
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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

Yes there are two double circle F's one on the body and the barrel. Being in the US I do not understand the significance of the marks.

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Do a Google search for 'Fianna Fail'

The British Government issued (supplied) a number of rifles to the Fianna Fail they were re-numbered.

Frederick 303 post on here and has done some detailed investigation into these rifles - as short extract from some of his posts :

1) The transfer. They were transferred to the Irish Free State between September of 1921 and July 1925. That of course excludes the quantities of SMLE rifles that the Irish had taken of the British RIC , occupation troops and smuggled into Ireland.

2) They were re-marked by the British at Enfield lock. This occurred because at the time of the formation the Irish Free State was still supplying arms to the IRA in Northern Ireland and the MOD wanted to be able to trace any arm supplied to the Free State. That is why the script is larger then normal and of a different font.

3) Because of t he fact the rifles sent were for the most part reworked rifles, SSA rifles are by no means uncommon in the Irish lot. Of the 103 MK III and MK III* rifles in my data base, 9 are SSA and two are NRF rifles.

4) Quantities: the records are a wee bit sketchy on captured arms here but this is about as best as one can do:

In the 1925 arms census that occurred after the Irish civil war, the total number of arms retained was something like 42,500. Of that something on the order of 9,800 were SMLE MKI*** rifles and the remainder were SMLE Mk III and MKIII# rifles. Of that quantity ~ 4,800 to under 6000 have the origional serial numbers, indicating these arms were smuggled in, captured or taken off of the British troops as they withdrew. The quantity of SMLE MK II and MK II* rifles supplied to the Irish free stare with new serial numbers are at least 27,500. Of the transferred arms about 300~400 are known to have been lost in the first battle of the civil war at the Dublin court, where they were burned.



You could PM Frederick who I'm sure can overload you with info if you want it.

Its Irish

One of the original lot transferred at the start of the Irish civil war Circa 1921/22, returned to Enfield Locke for rectification based on the double mark most likely around 1938, the barreled action and barrel replaced at that time (renumbered to match the returned Irish barreled action), then returned to Ireland. The most likely date on the barrel would be 1938.

Looks like someone took a spoke shave to the stock wrist.

I can see a 38 on the barrel with an arrow to it, The back sight remained un-struck with the original number matching the receiver, and yes the wrist has clearly been scraped down, then at some point, the exterior of the wood and surrounding metal at the edges covered with varnish or shellac after it all had been installed to the rifle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

I can see a 38 on the barrel with an arrow to it, The back sight remained un-struck with the original number matching the receiver, and yes the wrist has clearly been scraped down, then at some point, the exterior of the wood and surrounding metal at the edges covered with varnish or shellac after it all had been installed to the rifle.

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And you thought you had bought "just an old Enfield", now you know it has a lot of history ……………………………………...

If you want a more detailed history of the Irish rifles, check out this write up on the topic, see posts # 20 and # 52

Fritz's FF marked Enfield sticky

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

If you want a more detailed history of the Irish rifles, check out this write up on the topic, see posts # 20 and # 52

Fritz's FF marked Enfield sticky

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Thank you for pointing me in the direction of that information. It's very informative research and must have taken a significant amount of time to compile, if there is anything I can do in return to oblige just let me know.

Thanks once again-Brian.

FWIW, there was a "FF" marked No 1 barrel complete with D&T'd receiver on eBay the other day. Unusual to see two in only a couple of days.