RFI SLR mag

I noticed this mag for sale last weekend which the vendor claimed to be ex Argentinian. I did point out that it looked like a SLR mag rather than a FN FAL mag but I then said that anything was possible because of the wide variety of small arms that was captured from Argentina at the end of the Falklands war. I did go onto to purchase it purely on the grounds of the Indian markings. There is a significant dent near the bottom of the mag on one side and, as can be seen in the pics; also, as can be seen, there is a red band painted around the mag.

I wondered if anyone could explain the red band, please, and which country's military may have applied it? Is it in reference to the dent or does it signify something else, please? Did India, or indeed Argentina, mark some of their magazines in this manner with the red band? Did Argentina ever use any inch pattern SLR/FAL rifles in any numbers apart from the few that were captured from the UK, please?

Many thanks for any information and thanks for any replies.

Afternoon F10, first off, the Indian 1A1 is a real mongrel of a Fal!

It was an unauthorised, unlicensed Fal derivative that India announced to the world as their "new Indian designed rifle".

This went down like a lead balloon with FN, who promptly blew a fuse and slapped a law suit on the Indian government!

Upshot, the Legal action was settled with India agreeing to buy batches of UK, Australian and Fal's from Belgium and pay a fee for the licence infringement.

The 1A1 itself was sort of half metric Fal and half inch pattern L1A1.

Quality is questionable, some parts are interchangeable with the Fal family, others not (top covers for instance) but they work as well as all Fal's none the less.

Reliable and robust....

The Argentineans used domestically manufactued Fals, with some Fn made variants too I believe.

They never used Indian 1A1's.

Red stripe, drill practice, blank only, training use only ?

Normally indicates "live rounds" but in any other countries understanding it could mean "Firing Squad"!!!

Gil, it MAY be. That the red band was applied as the mag was defective? If the dent is 'Significant', it may prevent the follower from fully depressing. & thus be marked
like this for repair. Or destruction / cast from service perhaps? Just my thoughts on this.

Mike.

Mike, good see you again mate, hope all is well with you, we must catch up soon.

Mike,
Would Armourers do this as a matter of SOP? Not seen it in PARA/SF Units?

Dented mags were a common fix. We had a 3 part tool used to lift dents and then dolly them flat. The BIG problem was that mage were so cheap and readily available that it simply wasn't worth repairing one with anything but a shallow dent. Dnts at the base would jamb the platform in the down position rendering them useless - as shown in this RFI mag and marked accordingly I suspect

That is an odd-looking NSN on that mag. It starts out with the "1005", (Small-Arms group code), but it also appears to contain the letters "RFI".

Am I missing something here?

Rifle Factory Ishapore Bruce....

So, does this mean the Indians do their own thing with the NSN / DSN system?

I think so Bruce, it's a case of copy
(add additional bureaucracy) and paste!

Yes, they did have a funny NSN system with the usual B1 and 1005-99 code but their identifier was 00 (or was it 09?). We had a parts list and EMER for the INSAS, L4 and L7/GPMG guns and they conformed to the standard NSN system. I can't see why they haven't finished the number on the magazine somehow.

I will take another photo of it, in due course, when I've had chance to clean the mag up. It was the odd looking NSN that initially attracted me to this mag and that's when the chap selling it came out with the story about it being Argentine. I don't think he knew what to say when I said that I didn't realise Argentina used inch pattern SLR's.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Yes, they did have a funny NSN system with the usual B1 and 1005-99 code but their identifier was 00 (or was it 09?). We had a parts list and EMER for the INSAS, L4 and L7/GPMG guns and they conformed to the standard NSN system. I can't see why they haven't finished the number on the magazine somehow.

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The country identifier of 00 is the original code for the US....they ran out of numbers in 1974 so started again with 01 as their identifier code. India's code was 72.
While this system of numbering shown does use the NATO stock class (in this case 1005 which is small arms under 20mm if I recall correctly) the remainder of the number would appear to be something strictly Indian or Ishapore. This numbering system seems to consist of just the stock class followed by a 6 digit part number, the manufactures initials, and the date.

Flying10. I would not expect it as often in the UK, but in the US, it is pretty common for those with little to limited knowledge of something gun related to “make it up as they go”. Can’t tell you how many times guys have given me a cock and bull story just to either, A: Make themselves sound knowledgeable, or B: Make the product more interesting.

I always prefer to say “I just don’t know” rather than try and sell a story with a product.

Talking about making it up as they go along, seemingly, we have got a mickey-mouse toy-town type of police outfit in the UK. You know......, all the gear and no idea....... They make it up as they go along. What makes it a tad nauseating is that they genuinely believe that they ARE experts, even when faced with two REAL experts! Sorry to go off track a bit......

I have a later RFI mag (RFI 84) and it has no NSN number.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

a mickey-mouse toy-town type of police outfit in the UK

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I heard about that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Talking about making it up as they go along,

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Nothing compared to our politicians at the moment. :lol::lol::lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Talking about making it up as they go along, seemingly, we have got a mickey-mouse toy-town type of police outfit in the UK. You know......, all the gear and no idea....... They make it up as they go along. What makes it a tad nauseating is that they genuinely believe that they ARE experts, even when faced with two REAL experts! Sorry to go off track a bit......

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I really cannot imagine who you might be talking about Peter :lol:

and.....................it would be good IF THEY ALL sang off the same songsheet.
They don't, because they train themselves, and believe and put into action wrong methods and practices that effect peoples lives, because basically THEY ARE arrogant!!!

Don't know whats going wrong out there Peter, its not the job we joined!:rolleyes:

It's not the REAL police we're talking about Gil, it's these mickey-mouse outfits who seem to lack the parental control button. One of their experts tells me that a night vision electronic tube contains a tritium light source and that according to his expertise in, well....,., everything, tritium is illegal. Good job he ain't wearing a luminous wristwatch! You couldn't make it up. Not that I know anything about night vision of course.......

Eventually, some of these "plods" are going to start wondering why the "peasants" are not talking to them, even socially, or more importantly, when serious matters arise.

Interesting US video here:

Dont Talk to the Police - YouTube

This is the BEST advice that I have ever been given in my life with examples of why thrown in for good measure. IGNORE THIS ADVICE AT YOUR PERIL.

I took this advice of my own volition and when a smug Barrister asked me why I had the temerity to tell the court what I hadn't mentioned to the inept non-real police, I told him. That they told me that I didn't have to say anything, so I didn't........ It is as simple as that..........

Thanks Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Eventually, some of these "plods" are going to start wondering why the "peasants" are not talking to them, even socially, or more importantly, when serious matters arise.

Interesting US video here:

Dont Talk to the Police - YouTube

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I've seen that video somewhere else a year or three ago. Although aimed at the US market it also applies to most of the civilised world.
I worked quite some time in the military justice world, dealing with minor stuff like traffic offences as well as criminal matters. In all that time and having read thousands of voluntary statements there was only one which got the accused off the hook, in that case it was a speeding offence. It was his estranged wife who had run off with the car and judging by the photo it was definitely not him, unless he had a serious hormone problem. Most of the time people not only failed to exonerate themselves, they sank themselves even deeper in the brown and smelly, that included one bloke who was from the Army Prosecuting Service!
Don't talk to the police also means don't make written statements.
And don't talk to the police.

If you wish to discuss the politics of firearms ownership or the practices and policies of various governments attempting to control them, then please use the appropriate venue described in the thread titled Where can I discuss politics and gun legislation issues? (click here).

Regards,
Doug