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I noticed that one of our fellow members is looking to purchase a "No5 Bayonet Frog". The photo below shows a selection from my collection which I believe would be "correct" for the No5 bayonet and I believe any variation of one of these would also be correct. Personally, I wouldn't display a No5 bayonet with the horrible nylon type frog, bottom row, last 2 on right.
Hello, I posted the ad for the bayonet frog, That is a nice collection you have there. Would you be willing to part with one of your choice???
If you tap in "British bayonet frog" into eBay USA you should see a selection for sale. I would pick one, similar to what is my photo, and also go for one with the extra upper loop, like all of the ones on the top row of my photo. Remember the No5, No7, No9 and SLR bayonet all used the same No5 type scabbard.
IMA does have some reproduction frogs for sale but you shouldn't have too much trouble finding an original.
You may come across examples that are Canadian made, especially in North America, which will be similar to UK produced examples, apart from the markings on the reverse.
A No.5 bayonet ‘could’ have been used with a variety of WWII and postwar British bayonet frogs, of which there are many. Then remember that there were fittings to carry bayonets on the side of 1944 and 1958 Pattern ammunition pouches.
Personally, I think a No.5 would look good with one of the jungle green 1944 Pattern frogs:
Pattern 1944 Web Equipment
I was hoping Peter would tell us which he saw used in fact, instead of speculation.
Thanks guys, for all the replies... I only found one on eBay similar to those pictured but only has the two wide lower bands. Seller stated it was black, ceremonial frog...any info from the wealth of knowledge here would be appreciated.
Dear o' dear....... In the Far East, we had No5 rifles and bayonet frogs sewn into our '44 webbing - as we did with the '58 type. For those earlier than that, you went to the QM's and got a big pile of '37 pattern webbing, signed for it and got whatever mix was in the pile. Neither the Tech QM, the dopey storemen - the blanket stackers - the room corporal or platoon Sgt or anyone else in the whole Field Army cared who made it, what factory it came from or where in the world it was made. Just so long as it was scrubbed clean and presentable, that was it. Whether i was for a No1, No4, No9, No7, No5, L1A1 type or whatever....... you got what you got. Can you imagine some asking the arms storeman if he could have a BSA made rifle or a Fazakerley SMG......
Lads, that's NOT how it worked as I'm sure Muffer and Jim will confirm
I sort of figured that...We were lucky, only FN frogs were available by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The only double standard was rifle slings. We had the brass buckled green web slings and .303 slings. And when you asked for a sling, you got a sling.
Did anyone ever see these "leather retention straps" used in service that a few UK dealers now have for sale. According to the people selling them they were used to help retain No4 spike bayonet scabbards in frogs that were "a bit loose". One could imagine finding that one had lost one's bayonet when one needed it if the scabbard wasn't securely retained to the frog. On the other hand they may have been produced but never issued, hence why some are available now.
I have to say that I never ever saw one but that's not to say they were not available of course. BUT, if they were available through Ordnance sores, then there WOULD be a B2/CR- XYZ type part number available too. And I never saw such a number (or item) in the old paper VAOS lists either.
On the other hand, we always had big piles of No4 type new and used scabbards available in order to use the scabbard button on No5/L1A1 scabbards where it'd broken off or was missing due to poor silver soldering. I seem to recall that the tinnies (the tinsmiths) would knock a few dozen off at a time and the turners would skim off the slightly rounded rear and they'd be ready to re-use on the No5's
Karkee webb covers the leather tab quite nicely
Pattern 1937 Web Equipment
near the bottom of the page. I've a unissued one floating about.
we've been thinning out the collection and just put a couple of frogs on ebay including a unissued 1944 Pat job dated 1945.
ATB
Tom
Stores Ref. A1/AA 1819 Tabs, securing bayonet
Stores Ref. B2/AA 1819 Tabs, securing bayonet
Stores Ref. B1/AA 1819 Tabs, securing, Bayonet, No. 4, Mk.I
Stores Ref. B1/1005-99-961-9514 Tabs, securing, Bayonet, No. 4, Mk.I
Re the above. His understanding of why it only refers to the No4 Mk1 bayonet is incorrect. The Mk1 part refers to the Mk/type of TAB. So it actually describes:
the Mk1 B1/AA1819 TAB used to secure the No4 bayonet
as opposed to the two top nomenclatures that wrongly describe the loop as securing 'a bayonet' - what bayonet!
It's like BOX, securing, transit, Sten x10, Mk1. It's not a box for shipping 10 Mk1 Stens, it's the Mk1 box used for shipping 10 stens of any type!
Maybe you could tell/.explain this to him Tom. One of the lessons learned from being an old, long time Armourer within the system and of how the QM's system works
I will pass it on to him Peter. Cheers!
ATB
Tom
It's an easy mistake to make Tom. But as many knew, it was mistakes like this that could soon become mistakes to YOUR advantage