No5 Survey

I have fairly recently become the proud owner of a Fazakerley No5, it took a while as they do not seem to come up on the market very often and when they do they seem to be pretty expensive, in the UK anyway.

Since owning said rifle I have done a considerable amount of research. I have found that whilst there is masses on the MK 3/3* and plenty on the No4 ‘s there is relatively little about the No5’s, this is understandable considering the small manufacturing run and the very short service life.

In order to try to gain a better insight and to assist present and future scholars I am conducting a survey of No5’s. This type survey has been variously conducted on other Lee Enfield derivatives.
Please shout if it has already been done.

I hope to publish the results in a spread sheet format, all the information being published as 'open access' information, free to all, please bear this in mind if you don't want any information freely available to the public at large.

In order to assist with this survey please can you provide me with the following information.

Manufacturer Faz or BSA
Date of manufacture
Date on barrel ‘Y’ or ‘N’
FTR ‘Y’ or ‘N’
If FTR’d date
Serial number
Serial no on magazine 'Y' or 'N'
Serial no on fore end 'Y' or 'N'
No5 bolt ‘Y’ or ‘N’
Correct 800 yard rear sight
Micrometer or stamped steel rear sight
Export markings ‘Y’ or ‘N’
Bayonet lug 'Y' or 'N'
Steel/alloy flash hider
Butt size
Fore end, (a) rounded metal capped fore end with transverse pin, (b) plain wood, no metalwork, (c) squarer metalwork
Current location e.g UK, USA etc
Anything else that may be of interest

Many thanks for your help and participation in this endeavour.

Welcome to the club, I'm sure you've already looked, but I'm amazed this hasn't already been done.

Next time the rifles out of the safe, I'll ping you the requested information.

Looked but can't find anything. But then again I have been accused of man looking many times before.

Many thanks.

Here you go.....BSA....1945....not sure if date on barrel(don't think so)….No FR/FTR marks or dates I see, but does have some R stamps, and obviously been overhauled a time or two....serial #BH 12xx....yes at least two serial numbers on mag box, none matching.....there was a serial number on forearm however it is not legible....correct hollow knob bolt, non-matching serial no....milled 800 meter/yd micrometer sight....Century small import stamp on barrel....yes normal flash-hider/bayonet lug M47C marked as the carbine's receiver is.....probably a normal or standard length buttstock(never measured it)….plain wood forearm tip(don't think it's been un-capped?)….USA....all the wood is walnut, forearm has several repairs and handguard is glued. buttstock has some un-readable/faint paint letters or numbers on the left side, and a stamped 207 on the right(in the sling groove)

I can't say that No.5 Mk.I carbines are rare in Oklahoma. There was a really nice one at a nearby gunstore a couple years ago and I have seen them at gunshows on occasion in fact I missed one at a small OKC gunshow a few years back(cheap!). Mine came from a gunshow years back when there was a bunch imported.

Many thanks.
Currently several advertised here in UK, one without bayonet lug at £900 or about $1178.
Recently spoke to a guy who deactivates firearms, he deactivated his last batch of 100 No5's, in nearly cried. Don't understand when deacts retail at considerably less than the real thing, such is life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBadDog

Many thanks.
Currently several advertised here in UK, one without bayonet lug at £900 or about $1178.
Recently spoke to a guy who deactivates firearms, he deactivated his last batch of 100 No5's, in nearly cried. Don't understand when deacts retail at considerably less than the real thing, such is life.

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£900-1000 seem to be about the going rate for them now.
I paid £850 for mine, and that was 3 years ago. One of our club members paid £1100 for his '44 dated one about 2 years ago, but it had a mint, tight barrel.

I'm guessing you might be referring to World Wide Arms? I was at the big Militaria Fair at Stoneleigh a few months ago, and saw a row of 6 x de-act No.5's on their stand :(
3 of them looked a bit ropey, but the others looked quite OK, and it of course does depend on the state of the barrels. I hate to think of decent tight gauging barreled No.5's being cut n welded :mad:

I believe I paid $245 for mine with sling and possible/probable reproduction RFI bayonet(could be a legit Indian refurb bayonet). The one I missed was priced at $175...I eye-balled it put it back went around the tiny gunshow and came back 10 minutes later and it was gone! The JC at the gunstore was priced like $750 and was very nice. It set on the shelf for a couple years before it disappeared. These all for serviceable shooters. No real market for deactivated armaments in Oklahoma.

I should add that I bought my JC in the early mid 1990's and the price was about average then. The gunstore price was a couple years ago and for the condition of the carbine I thought $750 a good price(a really fresh looking No.5!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenot

No real market for deactivated armaments in Oklahoma.

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There's a surprise :rofl:

If a /45 on the bottom of the barrel is a date then my BSA has a dated barrel...it is a BSA/M47C marked barrel.

Hey BBD, here are the particulars for my No5 Mk1:
Manufacturer: Fazakerly
Date of Manufacture: 12/45
Date on Barrel: N
FTR'd: N
SN: T7026
SN on magazine: Has a serial number but not the matching one with the action and bolt
SN on fore end: N
No5 Bolt: Y
Correct 800y rear sight: Y
Micrometer or Stamped: Micrometer
Export Markings: Y England on left butt socket
Bayonet Lug: Y
Steel/Alloy Flash Hider: Steel
Butt Size: I think Short, length of pull is about 12.5"
Forend shape: Plain wood, rounded, no metal cap
Current Location: Canada
Suncorite finish on metal parts. Has the standard commercial British proof marks stamped on the barrel

Good luck with your quest.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...s1Lljpg3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...230N6hfl-1.jpg

Here we go.
Mfr...............Faz
Mfr Date.......09/44
Brl Date........N/K
FTR..............Yes
FTR Date......1944
Ser No..........R1106
Mag..............No Number
Fore-end.......Numbered, matching
Bolt..............No5, numbered, matching
Rear sight....800yd, Micrometer
Export marks..No
Bayo lug......Yes
Flash hider..Steel
Butt............Normal
Fore end.....No cap
Location......UK
Status.........Sect 1 firearm
N.B. Serial number pre-fix for this date of manufacture should be a "B". Serial number has been closely examined and it is definitely an R. Matching fore-end and bolt numbers confirm this.

Looks good. Details added, Thank you.

Hi there, here are the particulars for my No5 Mk1:
Manufacturer: Fazakerly
Date of Manufacture: 12/45
Date on Barrel: N
FTR'd: N
SN: T4269
SN on magazine: Has a serial number but not matching the action and bolt
SN on fore end: Has a serial number but not matching the action and bolt
No5 Bolt: Y
Correct 800y rear sight: Y
Micrometer or Stamped: Micrometer
Export Markings: Y England on left butt socket
Bayonet Lug: Y
Steel/Alloy Flash Hider: Steel
Butt Size: Normal I think
Forend shape: Plain wood, rounded, no metal cap, Ishy Screw removed / repaired.
Current Location: UK (Section 1)
M47C Flash Hider (replaced at some time), "B" on Rear Sight
Attachment 99634

Regards,

John.

One #5 question you might ask on the survey is if the gun has a hollow butt-stock bolt

Mine:
Manu:FAZ
Date:2/45
Barrel date:N
FTR:N
FTR:N
SERIAL:E5609
MAG SERIAL:Y
FORE END SERIAL:Y
NO.5 BOLT:Y
CORRECT 800:Y
REAR SIGHT:STEEL
EXPORT MARKS:Y
BAYO LUG:Y
FLASH HIDER:STEEL
BUTT:STEEL AND RUBBER
FORE END:ORIGINAL (?)
LOCATION:OHIO, USA
OTHER INFO: ORIGINAL MATCHING FMP MARKED

This is all coming together nicely, I will add mine next t when she's out of the safe.

Here's one for you.

Mfr: ROF(F)
Date: 5/46
Brl Date: No ( electro penciled serial number V8653)
FTR: No
Ser No: V8653
Mag: No Number
Fore-end: Numbered, matching
Bolt: No5, numbered, matching
Rear Sight: 800 yd, Micrometer (stamped F)
Export Marks: No
Import Marks: (on barrel) first line: No5 MK1 .303 U-KING second line: CAI St Alb VT
Property Mark: FMP
Bayo Lug: Yes
Flash Hider: Steel, M47C
Butt: Standard
Fore-end: Capped, square
Location: USA

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4b1941_c-1.jpg

Manufacturer: Faz
Date of manufacture: 1/47
Date on barrel: No, but serial number matching
FTR: No
Serial number: Z1573
Serial no on magazine: No
Serial no on fore end: Yes, matching.
No5 bolt: Yes, number matching
Correct 800 yard rear sight: Yes, micrometer
Export markings: Yes, 'ENGLAND' on left side butt socket
Bayonet lug: Yes
Flash hider: Steel
Butt size: Long
Fore end: Squared metal end cap
Current location: UK

Got mine from my neighbour a long time ago about 1993 who is an avid bayonet collector. he bought this still wrapped in paper for the bayonet and offered the rifle to me for $200 CDN. never fired except for perhaps factory testing. i wasn't going to buy it until it slipped from my hands and chipped the rubber butt pad slightly on the concrete basement first step.
it has seen about 300 rds since then, and loves S&B ammo, closely followed by PPU. winchester is all over the place, but if i can get IVI.....now we are talking. i get that once in a while.
my ex-wife lost her mind when she saw it....

Manufacturer: don't know how to tell- has BNP in tiny letters stamped at top of the receiver over the chamber
Date of Manufacture: 1945 i think may. i knew once but cannot remember how to find that out again. if it stamped on here, my eyes are worse than i thought
Date on Barrel: N
FTR'd: N
SN: F34XX
SN on magazine: N
SN on fore end: N
No5 Bolt: Y matching serial #
Correct 800y rear sight: Y
Micrometer or Stamped: Micrometer
Export Markings: Y Englandicon on left butt socket
Bayonet Lug: Y
Steel/Alloy Flash Hider: Steel
Butt Size: long
Forend shape: metal cap held on with 1 pin
Current Location: Canada
Suncorite finish on metal parts. Has the standard commercial British proof marks stamped on the barrel
Hollow butt and hollow butt bolt. lighening cuts on chamber under the wood

Any chance we could have this survey elevated to the lofty heights of the stickies Doug?:)

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eggwelder

Got mine from my neighbour a long time ago about 1993 who is an avid bayonet collector. he bought this still wrapped in paper for the bayonet and offered the rifle to me for $200 CDN. never fired except for perhaps factory testing. i wasn't going to buy it until it slipped from my hands and chipped the rubber butt pad slightly on the concrete basement first step.
it has seen about 300 rds since then, and loves S&B ammo, closely followed by PPU. winchester is all over the place, but if i can get IVI.....now we are talking. i get that once in a while.
my ex-wife lost her mind when she saw it....

Manufacturer: don't know how to tell- has BNP in tiny letters stamped at top of the receiver over the chamber
Date of Manufacture: 1945 i think may. i knew once but cannot remember how to find that out again. if it stamped on here, my eyes are worse than i thought
Date on Barrel: N
FTR'd: N
SN: F34XX
SN on magazine: N
SN on fore end: N
No5 Bolt: Y matching serial #
Correct 800y rear sight: Y
Micrometer or Stamped: Micrometer
Export Markings: Y Englandicon on left butt socket
Bayonet Lug: Y
Steel/Alloy Flash Hider: Steel
Butt Size: long
Forend shape: metal cap held on with 1 pin
Current Location: Canada
Suncorite finish on metal parts. Has the standard commercial British proof marks stamped on the barrel
Hollow butt and hollow butt bolt. lighening cuts on chamber under the wood

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Have a peep at the action body wall and tell us whats there, that will give you the manufacturer and build date, if its a comparatively factory fresh rifle, this will be clearly apparent, if it isn't, its not as factory fresh as you might think...

i`ll check after work, like i said, my eyes have a hard time focusing, and im not that old...

I feel your pain ... i'm always reaching for my gasses or the eye glass these days to try to read markings:thup:

Manufacturer Faz or BSA: Faz
Date of manufacture: 1/47
Date on barrel: No
FTR: No
Serial number: Z 2563
Serial no on magazine: Yes (Matching)
Serial no on fore end: Yes (Matching)
No5 bolt: Yes
Correct 800 yard rear sight: Yes
Micrometer or stamped steel rear sight: Micrometer
Export markings: No
Bayonet lug: Yes
Steel/alloy flash hider: Steel
Butt size: ??? Don't know how to measure - approx. 13" LOP.
Fore end: Metal cap secured with pin from bottom.
Current location e.g UK, USA etc: USA
Anything else that may be of interest: Beautiful birch stock, entire rifle in about 98% condition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorba

Manufacturer Faz or BSA: Faz
Date of manufacture: 1/47
Serial number: Z 2563

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Wow.... we've only had a handful of No.5 posted on here, and yet, your's and mine are only 1010 number apart from the same months production, and are now seperated by about 4000 miles :thup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorba

Butt size: ??? Don't know how to measure - approx. 13" LOP.

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Don't need to measure. Butt's came in 4 standard sizes, Bantam (B), Short (S) Normal (unmarked) and Long (L), so you need to look on the underside of the butt edge near the end to see if there is a B, S or L stamped into the butt. If not marked it's a normal butt length, as about 90% of them were.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

you need to look on the underside of the butt edge

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Mine was marked on the heel of the butt, on top. Not on the underside...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Mine was marked on the heel of the butt, on top. Not on the underside...

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Yes, my mistake, mine is marked L on the topside, having just checked.
The old grey cells are getting a little fuddled with age :lol:

There is definitely a mark on the top near the butt. It looks like "U1" or "UL", but its kind of distorted and hard to tell.

WAIT! Went and looked at it again. When the light's just right and I look at it at the right angle, its an "S", actually nice and clear. So its a "short" buttstock - I learned something new today.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

Wow.... we've only had a handful of No.5 posted on here, and yet, yours and mine are only 1010 number apart from the same months production, and are now separated by about 4000 miles :thup:

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Now that I know what I'm looking at - is yours a short buttstock too?

ETA: went back and looked (duh!) - yours is long. Ain't that interesting!

Oh, and we're only 990 apart, not 1010! :runaway:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorba

There is definitely a mark on the top near the butt. It looks like "U1" or "UL", but its kind of distorted and hard to tell.

WAIT! Went and looked at it again. When the light's just right and I look at it at the right angle, its an "S", actually nice and clear. So its a "short" buttstock - I learned something new today.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------



Now that I know what I'm looking at - is yours a short buttstock too?

ETA: went back and looked (duh!) - yours is long. Ain't that interesting!

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Actually, mine was originally a 'S' butt, but I was in the fortunate position to be able to effect a swap for a 'L' butt that was on another No.5. Makes it much nicer to shoot.

Gidday Big Bad Dog, I have a no5 mkII(F) serial # AB263 build date 6/47 metal capped fore end location Australia correct 800yd micrometer rear sight. What I find interesting is the stamped on the left side of receiver is MkII is it a Mk2? I have been told there is no such thing ? the II is stamped and look like two vertical lines have you come across this before? Cheers Bill

We're going to need some pics Bill.

We're going to need some pics Bill.

Manufacturer Faz or BSA: Faz
Date of manufacture: 5/45
S/n on barrel: Yes
FTR: No
Serial number: L8210
Serial no on magazine: No (new o/s Faz replacement)
Serial no on fore end: Yes (Matching)
No5 bolt: Yes
Correct 800 yard rear sight: Yes
Micrometer or stamped steel rear sight: Micrometer
Export markings: Austrian proof
Bayonet lug: Yes
Steel/alloy flash hider: Steel
Butt size: N
Fore end: rounded wood
Current location e.g UK, USA etc: UK
Anything else:
Rifle in excellent condition,BSA marked flash eliminator (M/47c).
I purchased this rifle from Promo (of this parish) and couldn't be more happy with it.