Possible Indian CLLE conversion

I'm looking at some pics of what appears to be a CLLE mk1 and the left wrist marking is something I have never seen before. Possibly an Indian conversion based on the style of lettering?

The letters which are partially barred out appear to be C.C.L Skennertons is no help except to say that the Indian conversions were different to British ones.

The other pics of the rifle show its a Mk1 (no star CLLE) hover the notch in the charger bridge is squared rather than a rounded scallop.

Any one have pics of Indian CLLE conversion makings ?

Possible CLLE by Roy Kum | Photobucket

Cheers

Roy

My CLLE Mk I IP does not have any RFI markings for some reason, but by Mk II IP does.

Lance

Thanks Lance

I notice your RFI CLLE is stamped CCL LE and the one i'm looking at is stamped CCL. It seems RFI was using a different nonclemature.

Also ive noticed that on one i'm looking the left wrist appears to have had the recess for the volley sight ground away. I'm going to have to see the rifle in person.

Just a wild guess:

CCL, possibly "converted, charger loader," or, "conversion, charger loader."

Pictures as promised Roy.

Three Indian Pattern MLE, Mk I IP, SL, Mk II IP

The Mk I IP with butt markings but no receiver markings.
The Mk II IP with previous receiver markings but no butt markings, but with NZ Home Guard receiver markings. Square cut on the charger bridge.

Thanks Lance.

Does the one with NZ HG makings have British commercial proofs suck as 'BM' and 303 nitro proof? the sample I have here are marked as such, however they are all 'range pattern' with 24" barrels. Does it have its original barrel?

Roy

No, on both. No nitro proofs and the barrel has been replaced. She is a mix-master.

Thanks Lance,

I'm strangely drawn to CLLE here in NZ one of mine has the barrel replaced but it also has commercial BM proofs on it. my other one is in range pattern and fully matched, your one does not have NZ marks on the buttplate tang?

Roy


Roy

Butt tang markings: “NZ” over “17383” over “1901”. Most likely from the BSA I* the butt came from.

Aha

You restored it from a NZ BSA Mk1*? did it have a range pattern 24" barrel when you got it?

Sorry, the rifle did not have a barrel at all when I got her.

Roy, I have something very similar, but just need to work out how to post photos. Give me a bit of time.....OK, edited photos in now. My rifle appears to have something like CCL officially cancelled out and CLLE added. Has the square notch in the charger bridge, and what appears to be a date on the rim of the butt socket. Might help your research, regards Anthony

Thanks Anthony

Does yours have any remains of markings on the butt or buttplate tang, any commercial markings on the breech ring or nocks form and range pattern or still full length?

Cheers

Roy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roy

Thanks Anthony

Does yours have any remains of markings on the butt or buttplate tang, any commercial markings on the breech ring or nocks form and range pattern or still full length?

Cheers

Roy

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Hi Roy,

I have to use my wife’s computer to post photos, so when she gets home I’ll add a few more. It is a bit of a bitsa also, barrel is a 1920’s Lithgow replacement, at least it’s a 30” barrel, butt has been shortened slightly, but may well still be the original? There is Indian proofs, but Skennerton doesn’t believe they did the CLLE conversion. Not to say the cancelled CCL(?) wasn’t done by India. He was also confused by the lack of a date, as it appears that mine had some sort of rack number instead, but it was also canceled out. Get back to you later. Anthony

Hi Anthony

Skennertons description of converted rifles in India is confusing to say the least, Whereas in England, MLE rifles converted to Sht LE MkI pattern with sliding charger bolts were (generally) known as Cond rifles. It seems in India MLE rifles converted to Sht LE MkI pattern were known as CLLE 1. MLE rifles converted to charger bridge loading from 1909 were known as MkII IP CLLE Skennerton howerver makes no mention of C.C.L

Hi there,
I have attached some extra photos of the CLLE. The butt was shortened as is evident by the slightly shorter tang. I don't think it ever had any issue marks. Like you say, Ian had no knowledge of the CCL marking, though at the time, we were unsure of the actual lettering underneath the cancellation marks. Have attached one of the emails I received back from Ian, slightly confusing, but still interesting. Hopefully we can find more examples of the CCL markings that may shed some light on what /where these rifles were converted. Regards Anthony

Thanks Anthony

Yes your rifle did spend some time in India as evidenced by the GRI proof on the breech ring. Lance's rifle has the stamp by RFI, CCL LE. So i'm confident CCL is an Indian marking. The one I saw also had the obliterated proofs on the breech ring.