Has anyone had an experience with a set of 1891 7.65x53 go/no go gauges? I have re barreled my 1891 with a new/old stock barrel in the same 7.65 caliber. Do I still need these gauges? Jim.
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Has anyone had an experience with a set of 1891 7.65x53 go/no go gauges? I have re barreled my 1891 with a new/old stock barrel in the same 7.65 caliber. Do I still need these gauges? Jim.
Yes, headspace needs to be checked when rebarreling.
Better to have 'em and not need 'em than need 'em and have to find 'em again.
Like ikesdad says, head space gauges are 100% required when installing a barrel. The bolt and barrel must be properly fitted. Neither are drop in parts.
You're going to need a barrel vise with bushings and the correct action wrench too. Installing a barrel is not just screwing the thing into the receiver. Fail to use the proper action wrench can leave you with an oddly shaped paperweight when the receiver is twisted.
So does Reading!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
To answer the question . If your bolt will not close on a chambered round your headspace is too tight . If your firing pin will not set off a chambered round you have too much headspace . Anything in between you are probably ok . Once your brass has been fired in the rifle , you can just neck size to the extent you want for what ever fit you would like , if you are reloading for it . As a gunsmith who specializes in Mausers I have never found a barrel that just would not screw on and be ok . They were made to be interchangeable . Everyone I ever did was . I also turn , thread and chamber barrel blanks and have never had to use a headspace gauge to set up the barrel . I just measure and I can make my headspace clearance what ever I would like , 0 , +.001 , +.005 , or what ever the application calls for .
I'd like to come in here BobQ as a sort-of semi trained Armourer, starting as a 5 year apprentice in the 60's and graduate standard experience/courses since. I'd say that your take on headspace and the '.....anything in between you are probably ok.....' take on things is a tad different to mine. But like I always say, I could be wrong - or simply taught to be cautious as they say.
As an armourer , how many barrels did you make from blanks ? I have made a lot , made my own reamers for wildcat cartridges of my own design . Every time my headspace was within a .001 or less of what I wanted , without the use of a headspace gauge . How many time have you taken a used barrel from a Mauser and installed on another with the head space being fine . Like putting small ring Mauser barrels on Gew-88 rifles and they fit fine . All military rifles have extra headspace , they are made that way for a reason . I do not use the same headspacing for a benchrest rifle as I do for a hunting rifle , even if they were in the same cartridge . The guide lines a military will tell you to follow are different than what is used for other applications , they want things done THEIR way . The internet myths about headspacing are blown way out of reason by people who do not even understand headspace , what it does , how to set in and so on . They have never set headspace on a rifle , they are just repeating 5th hand information .
"...without the use of a head space gauge..." If you do that as a commercial smithy, you'll end up being successfully sued for negligence. And lose your liability insurance, assuming you have any.
"...head space was within a .001..." Speaking on not understanding head space. Head space is a tolerance. There is no measurement.
"...with the head space being fine..." And you know that without using proper head space gauges how?
"...If your bolt will not close on a chambered round your head space is too tight..." Far more likely that the OAL is too long. And "anything in between is a gigantic guess.
Thanks for the info. I will check it out when I receive my bolt back for bending for scope mounting. Hopefully, it will be o.k. as to head spacing, etc. I know there will be some adjustments to stock and receiver in order to properly close bolt. Jim.
Mr . sun , your statements clearly show you do not understand headspace . How do you know what the "tolerance " is ? Maybe by measuring it ?
Looks like we're out on our own Sunray! I'm totally lost for words.....
If I was putting guns I have worked on in the hands of others to shoot..(and I did for 32 years,, a few less than Peter!!!!).… I would always work to the accepted standards.....
And I would hope that work would last for at least 6 months. As stated in the EMER....
If only there were laid down standards.
If it's my own rifle and I'm the only one shooting it, I may be happy fixing it every time it will not chamber a round , or it fails for insufficient FFP.
Headspace gauges of the most basic type, i.e., "GO" and "NO-GO" are ESSENTIAL to the OPTIMUM fitting of a barrel to a mechanism, regardless of the operating system of said mechanism.
The idea of the "GO" gauge is that a "standard" cartridge will enter the chamber without forcing.
On the other hand, if the mechanism closes on a "NO-GO" gauge, the headspace may be sufficiently excessive and allow all manner of interesting events; from failure to fire because of insufficient striker contact to primer backout / rupture which causes high pressure gas to "eat" the bolt face and striker tip. Another nasty consequence is case rupture caused by the brass having too much expansion room if it is ignited.
Proper gauges are precision ground and calibrated to a VERY expensive "check gauge". They are HARDENED tool steel so that they do not distort or wear rapidly in use.
They MUST NEVER be "slammed" into the chamber. Ideally, the bolt should be closed with finger pressure alone, preferably with any spring-loaded extractors and ejector REMOVED. Whilst "civilian gauges usually have full "extraction grooves", MOST modern "military" ones of my acquaintance have a fully rebated "tail" that clears extractors and ejectors and has a hole to clear the striker should it fall. These features greatly reduce the possibility of false readings and damage to the firearm in question and to the gauges, which are NOT supposed to be flung across the workshop by the ejector after use.
Beware helically-locked actions like Lee Enfields and M-17 / P14 types. Forcing a gauge into one of these is REALLY bad for the rifle and probably the gauge. The pressure of ONE finger until resistance is felt is all it takes. The firearm and gauge MUST be SPOTLESSLY clean before gauging.
I have quite a few headspace gauges in sundry calibres, rimmed and rimless, including one-thou. "incremental" sets for 223 Rem and .308 Win.
Know and understand your datum surfaces.
What did you use for an action wrench?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim London