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Good morning gents,
I'm looking into the possibility of importing high quality No1 Mk1 and Mk3 stock sets. They would need to be imported in bulk to offset import costs. I am wondering how much you would be willing to pay for essentially a drop-in complete repro stock set in the United States. I am trying to gauge interest before I invest. Thanks!
I think we need more here, what material and how do they fit...where are they coming from. What's the workmanship, if they're being made new are they even close? Any examples?
All those of us keen amateurs who have gone through the Enfield bedding process, know 'drop in' is a highly subjective term!
Certainly interested to know more, as Jim said, materials etc...
Will they be cut for volley sights would be another good question. Provided they are and they are quality stocks I would certainly be in for several of each.
Bedding an Enfield will break the soul of even the most enthusiastic of enthusiastic amateurs. I still have nightmares......
Aw come on now WarPig. Really? I admit it can be a time consuming, (expensive), endeavor and somewhat tedious but not because it's that difficult. It just takes the proper tools, materials and intestinal fortitude. I'm always amazed at the so-called gunsmiths here in the USA that won't tackle them. It's an ongoing learning experience that never ends. I think even the real British and Commonwealth Armourers would agree with that statement.
---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
I almost forgot: If the quality and inletting of the forends mentioned by the OP is as bad as the Mk.V forends I fitted in years past that were supplied by EFD in the UK, I'd have to take that into serious consideration before I'd bother with another. It amazes me that new production wood never even comes close to the quality of the originals which are usually a pleasure to work on if you have basic woodworking skills and know what to look for. Having proper reference material doesn't hurt either.
Not my pics, form rifle stocks - Album on Imgur
Here are a couple shots. They would come from UK and be essentially finished. I have not yet held one in my hands, but the quality seems pretty high based on pictures. The process seems a little complicated to import from UK, but not impossible. They seem to think I would need to sell at about $500 per complete set. I'm just testing the waters to see what people are willing to pay for a "premium" product and if it would be worth the effort. Thanks for any feedback.
Side note: they are making No1 handguards too, they are just not pictured.
They do look good, but it really does depend on how accurate the inletting is.
Certainly demand for a variety of SMLE woodwork, No4 woodwork is still available though, but starting to dry up.
Beware the promises of a certain Northern American located source. Promises and delivery do not seem to match what many would consider "reasonable" it has been noted. Works, eventually but not in usual trading time frames. Just my 2 bob's worth... (About US $0.067 in current terms)
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------
This is a common misunderstanding, though not a major one. All rifles needed some final 'fitting' into their stocks. The Armourer's tool kit included round, course files, to trim the for end barrel groove to ensure clearance and support at the right location for existing, repaired or replacement furniture. It's not a 2 hour job, but it's a little fiddling in several bearing areas to ensure that snug fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Of course, literally, MrClark's comment is valid if the gross dimensions are well out of whack...
And, until we could see them in the skin it's a gamble. Pics can be out of whack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agambard1990
Not even that much, a user should be able to assemble his rifle. If you can't then it's not worth squat. None of this can be rushed into.Quote:
Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE
The OP is going to have to scope this out first and take his own risks and then others will be willing. I can't part with $500 in faith and then get firewood.
Agreed, very much so.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
$500 US is too dear for me. Bill at Alberta Gunstocks turns out great Long Lee, No1 mk3, P-14 and No4 mk1 stocks for less than $400 CAD.
Final fitting is always required, if it drops right in you are too loose at the draws and every where else.
Complete 1950's manufactured beech No4 MK1 wood sets are still available (here in the UK at least).
I would assume these are left overs from the massive post war FTR rework.
These are starting to become harder to source however, with fewer available for general sale now and mainly staying in the trade.
A sure sign that stock is starting to dwindle.
The trick as ever is finding a good forend without'the twist' that so many seem to have.
I suspect part of the problem with the "reproduction" woodwork is that it may well be made to dimensions taken from old specimens. If not of reasonably recent manufacture, there may be issues with shrinkage and other distortion.
The specification of the species of tree is critical. So is the nature of how the flitches (blanks) are cut from the basic "aged" log. How many manufacturers are likely to store finish-machined furniture in barrels of linseed oil for months or years? Unless the makers are actually fully aware of the final tech requirements of fitting and "treatment" of the tree-ware, they will not understand exactly what it is they are making to these "suspect" dimensions.
The ONLY way to get the numbers right is to use the correct timber, cut, cured and aged in the specified manner and made to the dimensions (and tolerances) on original drawings. "Non-critical" features like the provisions for the volley sights, may be "reverse-engineered", but NOT any bumps and lumps critical to bedding, and that especially includes the details for the fitting of the nose-cap..
The final catch is that the folks fitting this wonderful new furniture must be completely up-to-speed with the wood-to metal fit at each interface and whether there are additional "dynamics" at play, like all the fruit used to tune the barrel and fore-end of a No 1 Mk3" to Mk7 ammo.
Thank you all for the replies. Yes, it does seem rather expensive when there are other sources in North America that would be more affordable. I know that nothing is truly "drop-in", but these seem closer than a lot of the recent EFD furniture sets that Brian mentions. If I were to go in, it would be a major investment on my behalf. I was planning on taking a scouting trip to the UK to see them in person and perhaps trying to return with one to fit myself back in the States.
The no1 Mk3 stocks would probably bring less attention than the No1Mk1s, but how many No1 Mk1s are out there that really need new furniture? I have one which is where all of this began. They don't sell individual stocks unfortunately, so bulk is required. It is something I will ponder in these coming months.
Southern Cross Militaria has them here repro's $485/Au postage would be inhibitive besides you probably wont be able to import them as the worlds gone crazy apparently.
Me I have not noted much difference in it since the late '70's!!:(
Great to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.e moose
Any firearm components valued for more than $100 wholesale require an import permit from the BATFE to be imported legally. Commercial shipments must be brokered and cleared by US CBP at the point of entry.
They look good, but think they lack the contours of the originals, the early SMLE for ends where very thin, and never had a straight contour on the underneath, there was a profile just before the barrel band and the forward of this to the nose cap was very thin.
There are some very good stock makers out there, they would be my first point of call, if you want quality then you have to pay the price, The only reason I'd be looking for a decent stock set would be for a rare rifle etc, even then I'd probably buy a donor rifle for the wood work etc.
Original stocks were cut using a series of single purpose, very heavy duty machines.
Modern stocks will likely be made using either a manual pantograph carving machine or a CNC machining center. The pantograph copies a master piece. There are a number of factors which affect quality of the product. My experience is dated - I used a 12 spindle North Star machine to make muzzle loading fusil stocks. Keeping good quality control to minimize finishing time was a struggle. Machines of this type are widely used to make gunstocks. Seeing the stock after it comes off the machine tells a lot more than seeing a sanded, assembled piece.
I have no experience with the CNC route. In the US, Jim Kibler is CNC machining a couple of patterns of long rifle stocks. From the photos and user reports, these are incredible. Swamped octagon barrels snap into place.