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Hello all,
Picked this up recently. Is there any way to verify these based on serial number like you can an M1C or M1D?
Looks pretty legit to me but a verification would be nice.
Anyway, here's some pics for perusal!
Attachment 100694
Attachment 100695
Attachment 100696
Attachment 100697
Attachment 100698
Attachment 100699
Attachment 100700
Attachment 100701
Very nice rifle...
There are no specific NM serial blocks, initially they were selected from rifles that shot well in the standard accuracy tests. A NM candidate could be picked and the rifles on each side rejected. Later, almost any receiver that gauged OK was used, as they were all rebuilds.
From what little can be seen, it doesn't look like an SA NM, but could be a match rifle assembled by a service shop.
Well that's a bummer, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
Any details in particular you don't like?
The bedding looked a little sloppy to me...didn't know if that was atypical or not.
I am not an expert, but the fact that the barrel has "NM" inscribed on the barrel between the cylinder rings on the left side, seems to indicate that the rifle is a 1963 NM. This mark was, as I understand it, added by SA when the complete rifle has been functioned and accuracy tested to meet NM spec. The replacement barrels that I have seen and most of the "built" rifles have NM on the breech but not on the front of the barrel. I believe that it may be 1963, if NM, because it has the NM2A mark on the rear sight base. My NM M1, that I purchased in 1962, had the NM2 sight base mark, but I believe that the NM2A marks was added in 1963
FWIW
I'm not seeing the right marks in the barrel date area and the bedding is not SA. All those otherAttachment 100710Attachment 100711 NM parts were readily available from the DCM by mail.
Ah, yes, that looks much more like I would have expected the bedding to look.
Your opinion is super valuable and I appreciate you contributing. No big deal if it's not real. I took a bit of a gamble but with all the NM "upgrades" I won't lose my shirt, I think.
I'm in it for about $1,600. I might find someone to give me that eventually haha. It is accurized, after all...that's worth something.
By the way, I do have another pic of some barrel markings:
Attachment 100723
One other note, the stock is DOD stamped:
Attachment 100724
That's helpful... the cross is the annual mark for 1959 so that was probably the original assembly. It was later upgraded by somebody as new accuracy measures were annually approved by NBPRP. It doesn't appear that it was done at SA, so my guess is the shooter himself. It could have been a service team, but the other common service shop techniques like polished barrel underside, wood screws to fasten the front handguard to the lower band are not there. It probably shoots great.
Well that about sums it up then. Thanks again for weighing in.
I mailed off for a CMP serial number check a few days ago. Maybe that'll say something interesting.
I've updated my auction listing for this accordingly. I certainly don't want to try to pass it for something it isn't!
I always found this photo super-illustrative of what went on at SA. Note that the Greek Cross suggests 1959 as the original assembly, just like the rifle in this thread. As new things were allowed each year, like bedding in 1960 and the hooded sight in 1962, rifles still in inventory got those upgrades. You couldn't issue one competitor a new rifle with all the latest tricks, and another competitor an older one without them. Each time the rifle got upgraded, it got marked with the code symbol for that year. This one got rebuilt twice, so the barrel sports a complete history of it, most cool.
Attachment 100829
That is a neat picture, Bob. Thanks for sharing!
I notice your picture and mine both have a T shaped stamp. Mine is upside down and yours is between stamp 1 and 2.
Do you happen to know what that means?
Yes, it's proof of targeting. The P, of course, is over-pressure proof firing. The barrel (and the bolt) was proof fired when it was made and again as part of the assembled rifle.
That reminds me of a story I have told before: at a gun show in the 1990s a dealer had a junk pile for sale as a "gen-you-wine National Match." It was so bogus I couldn't resist asking him how he knew it was a NM. He actually said, "Pay attention and learn something."
Pointing to the barrel date area, he said, "You see these letters P M here?" (the P is Proof Firing, the M is Magnetic Particle Test for cracks found on every barrel.) He went on to say, "Those are the initials of Paul Mason, the guy who assembled all National Match rifles at Springfield Armory. That's how you know it's National Match."
That might be the best BS story I ever heard at a gun show!
1963 Type 2 NM M1 Garand - Album on Imgur
I paid 1K for this one. It has the same SA yellow bedding. Not sure how real it is, but it's a keeper.
Looks right as rain. The bedding must be like that shown in my earlier post, and the last four serial digits should be written in white on the floor plate of the trigger housing and the barrel channel of the stock. You should spend the $25 for CMP documentation, it adds to the value.
You stole it, nice rifleQuote:
Originally Posted by gun papa
Heres mine I picked up awhile back, I paid substantially more than you
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=65157
Mine has the SA type bedding but channel numbers do not match. The trigger housing is not marked with pencil. CMP has no record on it. No big. I don't plan to sell it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Hello all,
I received my letter from the CMP today (took less than two weeks!).
*drumroll*
This is indeed a National Match.
It was sold as a National Match M1 on August 5th, 1960 and shipped to Temple, Texas. I bought from an auction about 10 minutes from there according to Google. Must’ve got it from the original owner.
It’s clearly been modified since then but this is definitely a win for me!
Congrats Nice Rifle
And here's the documents for those interested:
Attachment 100996
Attachment 100995
This sold for $2,610 including shipping.
Considering the post-military work that had been done to this, I'm pretty happy with the price.
The buyer was happy to find one in his price range prior to some additional red-tape being enacted in Washington State.