The Guns of Longues Sur Mer

I mentioned the above place in another post, but was lucky to be over in Normandy last week, although some of my transport let me down the Citroen Berlingo carried on, so managed to get to a few places of interest to me.

Before I left, two books I ordered arrived, D-Day Fortifications in Normandy OspreyPublishing and a very thick book The Atlantic wall (History and guide) by Pen and sword.

(I can assure you, to go into a Library and ask for a book on German Bunkers you wont get much apart from some strange looks... )

I was about 6 miles south form Arrowmanches, (Gold Beech) although every time I tried to visit there was something on, even the last day on Sunday I drove there only to find hundreds of cars going that way.
But I managed to get to some other places, as I was following a map of the WW2 defences in that area, I'll come back to that in another post, but the best site so far was Longues Sur Mer.

Its now a Preserved site, I've many pictures but will go through quickly each casemate and concentrate on No 1 ??


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../HT3OONN-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../DRKUwRU-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kUJppOh-1.jpg

The barrels are marked with a BxB code which is the Skoda Works......
(Aktiengesellschaft vormals Skodawerke, Pilsen, Czechoslovakia)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../mb50tOn-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wYXqkhi-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../H4H4hMN-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../SfiSN4v-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Jnl68fE-1.jpg

No1 (which I thought was No4) is probably the best of them all, quite a few photos of this and of the rear, the entrance and looking through to the breech, the actual casemates were only for the Gun and ammo, outside at the rear was an ammo store,.......

I've tried to recreate what it would be like for one of the lads shifting ammo from the rear into the casemate in the last few.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ICn90bc-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../AAusgXI-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../63Gw0vj-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9YRzgQ3-2.jpg


So from the ammo store at the rear,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../lEdsl3h-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../6CTJW0s-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../XzDDjuC-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m6czg9D-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../rHq3tmP-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../giLlCsx-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Wz1jQv0-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../cAVsWYF-2.jpg

Walking up to the command post I passed another ammo store, this one is far more accessible than the last, but included a pic of the entrance etc, at the corner were I turned to the command post there was a small gun emplacement and a tobruck, Similar builds had the turret from a French Renault tank sitting on top, I'll find a pic and post that later.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../iSlRNxj-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../RVcAedk-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../VGfp25b-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9lBqZV2-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../L2WkPRw-2.jpg

The last was the command firing post,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../xfvLqHv-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../5Emb9Mk-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FApc0UL-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../5TRTwsD-2.jpg

I can only imagine the view on the 6th June 1944 would of caused occupiers some quick bowel movements....

One thing I noticed and I would say only a matter of time that it becomes closed was the concrete cap supports are looking a bit tired...... didn't stay under here for long, no doubt it will be still be there in another 75 years, but its the Engineer in me.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../zODGgcA-2.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../GsAgHgP-1.jpg

Had a Fantastic time, I just concentrated in one area, I intend to go back but I'd do it outside of the June celebrations, only for the fact its easier to get to certain places.

I'll post another thread on the map and positions I was trying locate.

Geoff,
Brilliant images there and confirms the Ship guns and all look German to me from your stamp pics!! Some close calls by the look of them to especially that side swipe on the ships gun

Chatting to one of the constructors at Merville Battery yesterday, as a Trustee of the Airborne Forces Museum, and he was telling me, as they are constructing a massive car park as Mayor Paz goes all out to make it one of the main Normandy attractions. Dug down and found an underground command centre with bunks etc untouched. That will be a good one to look at in the near future when the site is cleared.
Lots of stuff on that site which is non British, like the DAK in US colours but heyho, they have to make a living on what happened on the coast while they can!!!

Gil, I've a few more pics to post but on a separate thread, its where I was looking for what was on a WW2 map, although some of the big structures are still there a few I guess were demolished etc.

The camp site I was on must of been under a flight path as I was graced a few times by low level DC3 's (C47) one in D-Day colours the other looked like a commercial or a RAF ceremonial colours etc light grey/blue.

Geoff,
Once they left us at Duxford on route to Normandy on the 5th they went in a gaggle for various drop zones and timings.
There were seven silver coloured commercial DC3's from South America.
As you know 40 were scheduled to arrive at Duxford on the 3rd but only 26 made it, leaving a trail of breakdowns across Greenland and Alaska!!

D-DAY DOLL and the one beside her taking the shot pictured was full of British Paras who wanted to fly over Pegasus Bridge before their drop where they knew their mates were performing to the crowds ha ha!!
Always a jump preferred to standing around in NO2 Dress!!!

Does anyone which ship/s or which class of ship these guns are off. I'm thinking that they have the look of, perhaps, the secondary armament rather than the main armament from a warship.

Certainly the secondary armament on a cruiser on port and starboard sides of WW1.

From what relatives tell me ALL these gun implacements were called Bettungsschiessgerüst firing positions.
These were all manual powered mounts rotated on a pivot at the front of the mount and the rear was supported by rollers resting on a semi-circular rail, and crewed by up to 9 Sailors.

All were equipped with a gun shield and capable of all-around fire as seen on Geoffs images.
Every gun position along the Normandy coastline was manned by sailors from the Naval Artillery Regiment called the Matrosen Artillerie Regiment. They were deemed as experts.

The reason apparently was, firstly their expertise which could not be surpassed, but secondly as Rommel wanted so much doing on the orders of the Fuehrer in such a short time to repel an invasion from England, they used every spare cannon they could find which had not been scuppered at Scapa Flow and after.

These involved a lot of captured French and Belgium cannons as they took the countries.

As an aside, Merville Battery was always a misnoma. It was believed by British Intelligence that each of the casements there, overlooked all the landing beaches and were ready for action and capable of reaching ALL the beaches and causing devastating results.

This was so far from the truth when the 9th Battalion The Parachute Regiment attacked it in the early hours of the 5/6th June and lost a lot of good men, only to find postions empty and what cannon was there was only capable of a 1000 metres at best and old stock.

Point du Hoc was the same. Intelligence said one thing, but once the Rangers had finally achieved their aim from the sea, and lost a lot of good U.S. soldiers climbing the sheer wall of the cliff, the implacements were empty, or had been recently vacated!!

Tragic if you start looking at each of these locations and the stories surrounding them. So much unecessary death on all sides through very bad intelligence.

So in short, the ship guns were there to basically have a barrel pointing out to sea, in the belief that only serving soldiers and sailors would know what was really inside the casements. I am sure some historian will tell us what they were and where they initially came from when Rommel waved his magic stick!!

The casemates in post one were actually only just completed before The 6th June, a handy publication called "The German Battery at Longues-Sur-Mer" by Orep editions, OREP Éditions
has a few arial photos of march 1944 and May 1944...... other good pics in there and for €5.70 well worth it, if your into your concrete.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Geoff,
Once they left us at Duxford on route to Normandy on the 5th they went in a gaggle for various drop zones and timings.
There were seven silver coloured commercial DC3's from South America.
As you know 40 were scheduled to arrive at Duxford on the 3rd but only 26 made it, leaving a trail of breakdowns across Greenland and Alaska!!

D-DAY DOLL and the one beside her taking the shot pictured was full of British Paras who wanted to fly over Pegasus Bridge before their drop where they knew their mates were performing to the crowds ha ha!!
Always a jump preferred to standing around in NO2 Dress!!!

---

What is interesting in that excellent shot is that BOTH Pegasus Bridges are in the shot. The original that was removed to make way for expansion is now on shore can be seen right under the nose of D Day Doll with a glider pointed at it.


Bob

Well spotted Bob, Not many know there are indeed two bridges, the original is part of the Museum.

When I was traveling on the Wednesday I was about an hour from my camp site, I took a break and was talking to a few Bikers who were on their way to Drop Zone K IIRC, as there was going to be a drop nearby but believe it was delayed due to the weather, ( Gil, Do you know anything about it?) seems History does repeat itself, as it was chucking it down, in fact it was pretty wet throughout the week......... two old boys who were on the next pitch to me with BSA M20's had gone but returned due to the delays, they looked a bit damp too....

Bob,
Yes I did identify that on a couple of other sites I put the photo up on, and commented that we were there in 1993 as the French contractors were busy with their blow torches cutting up the original bridge.
We got that stopped immediately through the local Mayors office and bought the bridge on behalf of The Parachute Regiment and he sold it to us realising the hostorical value for 1 Franc. Caused a bit of a stir at the time and hit national newspapers all round the world especially in the UK and the USA.
It was duly moved to where it sits now and we built a museum around it, talk about "timings"and in 2000 His Royal Highness The Prince Charles officially opened the museum as our Colonel in Chief.
Proud moment all round. Mark Worthington is the British Curator on site. Most of the artefacts in all the Normandy museums were gifted by us at Duxford, and we have a very strong relationship with all concerned over there, howver, some Mayors do their own thing................ie D-DAY marked DAK at Merville on show!!!

Geoff,
A couple of "local" aircraft drops were cancelled in the morning due to 18 knot winds on the DZ like we had at Duxford, but most jumped in the afternoon on the 5th! In short they loaded up at Duxford and went straight to the DZ's and umped successfully. The photo is from one of the two Brit PARA loads going to the DZ.
Just wanted a good pic for historical reasons!

Nice photos. ALMOST like being there.

THANKS!

Thanks for the photo series Geoff. Two years ago I took a detail photo of the muzzle of the gun with the barrel sloping downwards (your 2nd and 3rd photos).

Attachment 101025

It seems to have a cap that could be removed with a suitable (large!!!) C-spanner.

Maybe someone with knowledge of gun design could enlighten me: is that to hold in a barrel sleeve (maybe to prevent it shifting under recoil), or what?

BTW. the "micro-groove" rifling still looks pretty good after decades of exposure to the coastal atmosphere.

Hoping for answers!
Patrick

Patrick I did notice it, The actual construction looked like it has a liner with sections of reinforce, (bigger tube sections fitted over it) If you noticed the step ups they were all numbered.

Yep the rifling were very good considering the location, but the guns themselves never seen much action........

Well an interesting one..............the Navy used to have to have access to the front part of the barrel as it corroded in salt water at sea, even through the covers and often was replaced!

When a site like this was captured, was there an actual "allied policy" to deactivate the enemy weapons on site, such as removing part of the breach mechanism, as quickly as possible in case the site was recaptured in a counter attack by the enemy? It would seem like a sensible policy to have and I believe that other sites have had any enemy weapons, on site, made safe quickly after capture but I don't believe that I have ever heard or seen that there was a stated policy to do this.

More than likely did, but if the gun emplacement was secure and the guns were still in tact, probably used in case of counter attack from the sea. Then if the position was likely to be overrun demo the barrel

In the case of the above, the battery was used by the RAF...... it was the reason the casemate No 4 was in bits.

Thanks for all the pics and info Geoff and Gil, absolutely fascinating!

I spent a couple of days taking in the invasion locations a couple of years ago.

From Carentan to Pegasus bridge, taking in as much as possible along the route.

You could easily take a week doing it...

Some incredible museums along the route, with staff passionate about their subject.

Strongly recommended to all members, if you ever get the chance.

You need to traverse the invasion front to get a real idea of the scale and the incredible achievement and massive sacrifice made in the first 100 days post DDay.

Geoff,
Couldn't have been RAF mate, you would have been stumbling over abandoned Brylcream jars :lol::lol:

In the very first picture of the casemate with the demolished gun and barb wire fence. You can see the forward part of the barrel in the fore ground to the right.
I visited a couple of times in the last few years. I noticed that most visitors were walking on and over the barrel without even realising what it is. One end was sufficiently unearthed to see the rifling. Surprised nobody has dug it up!

I think Normandy and the French coast is so littered with German debris, that the French Government and local Mayories have decided to leave everything in situ, in the hope it will fade away...........not in their lifetime!!

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the Germans put "something else" into the mix of aggregates that had the effect of making their concrete especially strong and long lasting. It wasn't the iron reinforcing bars, but something that went into the mix of aggregates and cement but at the time the Germans may not have been fully aware of the affect of adding this extra ingredient into the concrete mix.

Their mix was 1 to 5 in relation to cement to sand thats why it was strong ;)

When you look a the Mulberry harbour parts that are still in the water at Arrowmanche; it's fair to say that the British concrete is fairly robust as well.
The German submarine pen's however are incredible; they'll probably be standing long after us humans have made ourselves extinct!

Sorry to be picky, but in the interest of anyone trying to find the location on a map, it is "Arromanches".

- I agree about the submarine pens! Similarly resilient relics are the old flak towers in Vienna (look them up!). The explosive force needed to destroy them would flatten a large portion of the surrounding suburbs, for which reason they have long been reluctantly accepted as part of the scenery.

Patrick,
Here you go mate:

Arromanches - Mulberry artificial harbour, D-day landing beaches - D-day museums, 360 Cinema - Omaha, Utah, Juno, Gold, Sword - Bayeux, Caen - Normandy Tourism, France

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 30Three

The German submarine pen's however are incredible; they'll probably be standing long after us humans have made ourselves extinct!

---

My understanding was that they put something else in with the concrete mix, other than the normal cement and gravel. I was hoping of confirmation and of what.

I think there is a detailed spec in, Hitlers Atlantic wall By Anthony Saunders, regarding the mix etc. The Aggregates are the mainstay of any concrete depending on the size and how course etc, I've a picture of part of a bunker that has broke away, which has a layer of rocks or large ballast between the rebar, they made best use of the re bar too.

There was several categories regarding the fortifications, also they had standards for the types of concrete and steel defence. I'm reading at present, The Atlantic Wall, History and Guide by J.E Kaufmann, H.W Kaufmann, A. Jankovic-potocnik and Vladimir Tonic.................... gives some details of the construction stages etc, casemates and U Boat pens.

On the Subject of U Boats, When I was an Apprentice in the Shipyard one of the Floating dry Docks was an ex WW2 German one.

Geoff,
Not surprised....Germans tended to make stuff to last and still do. Who won two wars again??

Must admit I got my first BMW last year, although had a VW previous for a few years and before this lots of Vauxhalls, the beamer wins hands down...... you only have to look at the MG42, what a design, the GPMG has a straight copy of the trigger mech and the bipod....... The M60 has some features but cant remember what ones?

I handled a live one last year although stamped as a MG 3 or 53 it had a 1943 date.......

Hi Bigduke!

I was there on June 4!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_121043-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_121433-1.jpg

A TV Channel made a live program

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_115623-1.jpg

I arrived in Normandy on June 1st and I stayed on all the beaches until June 14th.

It was a trip to Disney but with military vehicles!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_122809-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123103-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123238-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123309-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123339-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123444-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123530-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123539-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_130046-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123643-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123455-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4_123511-1.jpg

Also visit other Batteries, such as Merville, Crisbeck , Hillman , Point Du Hoc, Grans Bunker etc etc.

Best regards!

Looks like you enjoyed yourself...... Good to see the bikes lined up, My outlook on jeep owners has changed a bit since, selfish bunch of......... well I'll keep that to myself but little respect for others and driving through the back lanes like they own the place..... not all, but a great many, Bike owners were the top guys out there along with the big heavy vehicle owners or anything that wasn't a jeep.

I had a great time, met a lot of interesting folk etc, It was last minute thing for me regarding going, so camping was basic, but good, Best corned beef hash I've had in years, maybe because I saved the oil from the can of tuna.....lots of decent wine and cheese..... long Journey for me but nothing compared to yours ? I was just short of 1000 miles drive, then two days later after returning clocked another 600 miles to pick up a 1943 BSA M20..........

I'll be back again, need to finish a tour of a certain WW2 map....... but House extension starts next week so busy for a long time.

It has been a great trip! So many years with the desire to be on a D Day anniversary , I was able to do it this year with 3 friends. From Buenos Aires to Barcelona (12000 km) where we got on a campingcar driven to Normandy (1100 Km) to park at a campsite in Ouistreham. After being in all the beaches and its historical attractions, we started the return to Barcelona with a visit in Saumur tank museum.

Me(stand) in Arromanches talking with other Paratrooper!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._16_1_jp-1.jpg