Anyone seen one of these before? I have not. From the hand-engraved script markings I know is very early, well before WWI
Not certain it's for MGs, but certainly looks like it. 5x magnification. The FoV marking is illegible so far.
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Anyone seen one of these before? I have not. From the hand-engraved script markings I know is very early, well before WWI
Not certain it's for MGs, but certainly looks like it. 5x magnification. The FoV marking is illegible so far.
It does not have the normal inverted V reticle nor any range adjustment dial that is normal for the ZF12 MG prismatic sights. I think it may be an angle of sight instrument for an artillery piece where the whole sight mounting moves against a scale.
I am not an expert but some thoughts. It is NOT a service issue Imperial German MG sight as the standard ZF12 was the main and first sight for the MG (albeit in different patterns and variants) for the MG08. The MG01 did not have a sight so not pre-WWI. My offering is along the lines of perhaps it was/is a MG sight ... but something 'manufactured' ie put together by the Turks. The slide rail would need closer examination but this item would not be the first thing to have been cobbled together to meet a need. The real piece of evidence I would offer is that I have some pre-WWI Carl Zeiss rifle scopes, that with sniper shortages in 1914, were fitted to service rifles. Therefore becoming early military grade sniper telescopes. This is the subject for snipers, but these scopes are worryingly similar to yours, and there were several variants. x 5 magnification? what a great item for MGs!! I will add some imagery and people can draw their own conclusions but as I have said an offered view that may be the solution.....perhaps.
It would not be impossible to dismantle and reassemble and add some form of rail and indeed the Turks were/are excellent wizards at this sort of thing.
Images of various scopes - all looking similar!
Considering size shape and function, I am beginning to think this is the answer
Attachment 104089Attachment 104090
Thanks for the feedback. I'd be glad if that was the answer(!), but I have examined a few of those scopes of different models and although I believe the prism is the same as that used in the GZII and by the way, the Zeiss Telaplast and Stenotar binoculars, there's nothing cobbled together about this unit, and when this was made before circa 1905, the Turks certainly weren't making any optics, or much else! The rifle scopes such as you illustrated have light alloy bodies whereas this piece is heavy bronze.
There is a unit in the Zeiss Museum with some similar features.
Now the Warner & Swasey was heavy bronze as well, but Zeiss was far ahead of W&S in design, if not optical and mechanical production.
The Mod. 1913 Sight is such a monstrosity that either W&S was completely out of touch with leading designs, too egotistical to pay any attention to them, or they were just making as expensive and complex a unit as they could to fleece the US Ordnance Dept.
Instead of the complex "Sprenger-Leman" prism Zeiss used. the W&S 1913 features a couple of rather small (and therefore cheap) simple porro prisms.
Hi
Have just come across this post after hours of searching.
I have one of these. I was given it when I was a kid and never had any idea what it was. Mine has markings on it which I always assumed to be Middle Eastern, and came with it's heavy leather, belt mounted case.
I always figured it must have been some form of gun sight. I'd owned it for many years before I discovered that if you shine a light in the small glass apperture, it illuminates the cross-hairs.
At least I know which direction to look in now to try and pin down exactly what it is.
Cheers
Russ
Thanks for posting! Can you put up some photos of yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Are the markings the same as in the third photo in my initial post?
Incidentally, the Greener rifle seems to be a George Gibbs Ltd. fitting from the B6099 number added, which is typical of Gibbs. They seem to have stocked up quite a few Ross .280s, or at least retailed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1918
The scope is a G.Z.III, not II model.
The mounts are typical "Wiener Schnapp Montage" which rather suggests the scope was fitted on the Continent rather than in England.
The scope is set so far back that shooting from the prone position would be difficult. Using the tube as a carrying handle "while stalking"? :ugh:
The low power of 2x is more than compensated for by the 12.5° FoV and excellent light gathering. The exit pupil is massive for the time: 9mm approx., with 15/16mm objective and 30mm eyepiece.
These scopes were probably intended first for hunters working from high seats in the somewhat dark central European forests. For use in the trenches they would have been nearly ideal, with the extra 1 & 5/8" of rise of the objective above the ocular being icing on the cake. Many a life was lost that an extra inch would have spared.Quote:
The pupil of fully dark-adapted human eye can dilate to about 7mm diameter, so an exit pupil in excess of 7mm is passing more light than the eye can accept.
The reticule would be this type:
Surprised myself by being able to find the thing within 5 minutes - stashed in a box in the loft!
Here are some photo's - sorry about the quality, I just used my phone...
[ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH]Attachment 104373[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
Hope the upload wrks.
Russ
I should have mentioned, there is some engraving on the brass front plate, but my phone can't really do close up work.
Russ
The prismatic sights seem to have been popular souvenirs - perhaps because they could be quickly stowed away in a pack and weren't too bulky.