CMP 1899 Krag carbine questions?

This one followed me home. I did not know I was diving into the deep end of the pool.
Lots of variations, mixed components, mysteries, legends and myths it appears.
Here is what I have determined so far. Purchased from CMP (tag attached). Serial number is firmly in the published 1899 carbine serial number range year of manufacture 1900. Type 3 sights.
Stock is a modified rifle stock with pinned front band and a crisp 1900 cartouche and firing proof. Front sight is obviously hand crafted. No turned down muzzle for bayonet.
School rifle? VFW turn in?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

First it is not a carbine. The stock is a rifle stock cut down. The barrel looks to longer then 22 inches and the front sight is a non standard sight. The receiver may be dated 1899 but it is not in the correct carbine configuration.
Is there a CMP certificate with the rifle?

I will double check the measurement but a cursory measurement indicated 22". I checked a couple of references which indicate the 28xxxxx
is in the range of the 1900 carbine production. Not convinced it is a carbine but it would be nice if it is. The stock and front sight are wrong no doubt.
The good news regardless is I did not pay a lot. The CMP dated tag is in place no certificate though. I am going to spring for the $25 to complete the CMP verification.

If the receiver is marked Model 1899 Then it started life as a carbine if it is marked Model 1898 (with a serial number falling in 1900 production) then it started life as a rifle. The Model 1899 receiver marking was specific to carbines only.

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Originally Posted by carbineer

If the receiver is marked Model 1899 Then it started life as a carbine if it is marked Model 1898 (with a serial number falling in 1900 production) then it started life as a rifle. The Model 1899 receiver marking was specific to carbines only.

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Sorry I thought I had included this photo.
Krags seem to have been one of the most messed with (for lack of a better term) rifles out there.
Very odd piece.

It's just been messed with from one end to the other. Nothing right. Bore good? Then maybe a shooter. Is the rear sight marked for "C" carbine? Bet it's a rifle sight too...

One explanation could be, if it turns out it did come from the CMP, it very well may have been in a VFW or another facility that turned in their firearms. Being it was a carbine and they did not have sling swivels, the stock was removed and this stock was added as is to make carrying easier during ceremonies. Not sure what to say about the front sight.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

It's just been messed with from one end to the other. Nothing right. Bore good? Then maybe a shooter. Is the rear sight marked for "C" carbine? Bet it's a rifle sight too...

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The bore looks good. Sight not carbine.

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Originally Posted by mark1

One explanation could be, if it turns out it did come from the CMP, it very well may have been in a VFW or another facility that turned in their firearms. Being it was a carbine and they did not have sling swivels, the stock was removed and this stock was added as is to make carrying easier during ceremonies. Not sure what to say about the front sight.

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I think this must be the case. Any opinions on correcting the front sight? The base and blade are available. That is the only thing that is really bothering me.

How is the front sight attached? Is it pressed on following the barrel tapper? Are there any pins or screws? Also it could be silver solder on. IF the crown of the barrel loks to be that of a carbine and not cut down, I would remove the front sight and put the correct base on it.

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Originally Posted by mark1

How is the front sight attached? Is it pressed on following the barrel tapper? Are there any pins or screws? Also it could be silver solder on. IF the crown of the barrel loks to be that of a carbine and not cut down, I would remove the front sight and put the correct base on it.

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Sight appears to be home grown and pressed on. I hope the recess/dovetail is still usable if so a new appropriate sight is in order.
Perhaps have a go at shortening the stock to the appropriate length forward of the barrel band.
The alterations were done long ago obviously by someone with some skill of the shade tree type but not by an armorer.

It looks as though the barrel may be a replacement as the current sight base does not seem wide enough to conceal the original sight dovetail.
Thoughts?

Another bit on which I need some expert advice. Which of the magazine cutoffs is appropriate for the 1899 as I need a replacement?

Short / long / long rifle?

Model 1898 and model 1899 Krag receivers use the Magazine Cut-Off Lever with the short shaft.

I have been seeing cut-down Krags at gun shows for ages with that "Curtain Rod Fixture" front-sight. I don't know who made them. They are hideous and make me cringe.

I suspect they were a hardware store (non-gun) item, that got improvised into a 'gun-sight'.

They were probably driven on and held in place by friction. They are common.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

Model 1898 and model 1899 Krag receivers use the Magazine Cut-Off Lever with the short shaft.

I have been seeing cut-down Krags at gun shows for ages with that "Curtain Rod Fixture" front-sight. I don't know who made them. They are hideous and make me cringe.

I suspect they were a hardware store (non-gun) item, that got improvised into a 'gun-sight'.

They were probably driven on and held in place by friction. They are common

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Thanks on both fronts. Now I know which cutoff to seek. And I will not loose anymore sleep wondering where that hideous sight came from.

Any wagers on weather or not I will find a dovetail under said hideous sight?

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Any wagers on weather or not I will find a dovetail under said hideous sight?

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I think you'd see the evidence now, I expect it was a rifle barrel before.

FWIW - I recently bought an altered model 1896 Krag barrel on ebay, which I thought to be a 'cut-down' rifle barrel.

Upon direct observation, it appears to be a model 1896 carbine barrel, that had the original front-sight cut and filed down, before being 'dovetailed' for a (backwards?) Marble's front-sight.

Note the ghost outline of the original Krag FS Base.

Attachment 101800

I saw four Krags this week end. Only one had the original sights.

I spoke with a fellow at CMP custom shop and they are familiar with and have done the dovetailing and soldering of the Krag front sight. I am on the waiting list for the work to be done. They also have the parts and expertise to inlet for and install the barrel band spring (we are going to discuss that when they have eyes on).
Wish me luck.

If the rifle came from CMP, it could have come from one of two sources. The first source would have been returns from VFW or American Legion posts. These were for the most part fairly decent, complete, and original rifles. I saw M92/96, M96, and M98 rifles when they were offered at the CMP in Anniston, AL. Some of them had been plated. The second source of the Krags was from movie studios and movie prop companies. These Krags ranged from complete rifles to fabricated carbines. Many of the stocks were stamped MGM or RKO, and they were all in rough condition ( wish I had bought one now ). I heard that Orest, CMP official, traded M1903 and M1903A3 drill rifles for the movie Krags. I think the fabricated carbines were used in the "Rough Riders" movie.

At long last I received the carbine back from CMP. At the gunsmiths suggestion and statement that they get better results I opted for a relief cut and silver solder rather than a dovetail (results a little obvious but much better than before). They did a very satisfactory job and I believe added value back to offset
the cost. They did not believe the cost could be justified on cutting the stock down. I may attempt that myself at some point. I will try and post some photos this week.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I will try and post some photos this week.

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Looking forward to seeing it...

Photos of results.

CMP did that? Looks pretty close, pretty good. Bet it's TDC too. Many the gunsmith can't manage top dead center when push comes...

I saw a lot of odd things when the CMP was selling the VFW/AL Krags. One that I saw in the rack was a 99 carbine that had a duffle cut under the band. Reason for that ?????

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Bet it's TDC too.

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Dead on.

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Originally Posted by m1903rifle

duffle cut under the band. Reason for that ?????

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Perhaps someone spliced a carbine stock tip with the barrel band retainer onto a cut down rifle stock? S&S sells the carbine stock end for that purpose.

Nice and Honest CMP front-sight install: neat, workman like, attractive, and obviously not trying to fool future collectors.