Sht LE MK I*** wire wrapped info

Hi Guys,
I need to common knowledge of the community (or a select few)
I will be acquiring a Mk I*** with a G prefix that was wire wrapped.
I say was because someone at some point removed it and tossed it.
I wish to re wrap it the proper way.

Now i have read just about every post on a multiple forums and have looked a what ever pictures i could find so i'm well aware of the Irish connection and the G serial prefix and it's meaning. That is one of the reasons i am acquiring it.

What i do need would be the size of the wire (or gauge or diameter what ever you choose to call it. Keeping in mind that it is the metal wire version and not the later copper wire.
Also of help would be the head size of the brass screws and the size of the head of metal braquets that were used in securing it to the stock.

I read the article of Peter Laidler and saw that the copper one was .060... but couldn't find anything anywhere about the earlier version.

The screw holes and the nail holes are still on the stock so this would be relatively an easy thing to do.

If possible any owners of this version of the grenade launcher that could share a few close up pictures of the wire wrapping and how it was secured would be more than welcomed.
Thank you for any help.

I would post pictures of my Irish I*** with steel wire for you, but I’m having trouble doing so with my Apple devices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by husk

I would post pictures of my Irish I*** with steel wire for you, but I’m having trouble doing so with my Apple devices.

---

No worries husk. I appreciate you would be willing to help.
If you have your Mk I*** close by would you be willing to check the size of the wire, the brass head screws and also the tacks head for me ?
At least i would have those, it would help a lot.

Tatou,

If you look in my pictures section, I have a wire wrapped Mk I*** posted. Not the best photos, but they may help.

I know the wire on my rifle is really thick. I am out of town right now, but will be home by the weekend. If you haven't got it figured out, I'll dig mine out of my safe. It's an excuse for me to pull everything out and spend a few hours in the garage.

smle addict,
Thank you that would be great if you could. If i could have like 2 or 3 different guys confirm me the measurements i would be pretty much set.
I'm not in a hurry, i dont have the rifle yet and wont have it until probably the end of august. I'm bringing it up to Canada from the US and import takes time.

I might have seen your pictures… i've spent 2 days looking at old posts trying to find pics and informations lol I'll look again to be sure.
From what i gather the wire started or ended either under a tack or around a screw with a length tuck under the wrap itself… but better pics would greatly help to confirm my suspicions.

Hope these help.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c3659537-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9931d5d1-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...28f64f99-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7bb1bfb2-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d890ea14-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c904942c-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c2012441-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...52e7386f-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3a1edf7f-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4b787d66-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dfa137d8-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b3c66229-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f36ae815-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ea3170b5-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b74b457c-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gsimmons

Hope these help.

---

Absolutely :thup: Thank you very much.
The shot of the middle band confirms that the front portion is a continuous wire.
On a side note i notice that your front wrapping goes back all the way over the front volley sight plate, up to the rear sight.
Interestingly it's the first i see done that way. All the others stop just before the dial sight plate.
The rifle i bought also stops just before the dial sight plate. The marks on the wood and the screw holes are clearly visible.
So it would appear that there was at least 2 wrapping methods used. I find this interesting and useful.

I have a Mark 1*** Enfield 1904 with the last serial number G 839 (bolt is G 837) and it came from a pawn shop in GA back in the late 70's. My friend sold it to me a few years ago, it would appear that it had been wire wrapped but converted back to a normal service rifle. You can see the wire impressions on the rear hand guard, the fore-end was replaced with a Mark 111 wood and patched, the bore is excellent and the butt stock is early with the extra holes. I am going to leave it as I found it.Attachment 101701Attachment 101702Attachment 101703

Cool RCS.
I'm getting it's younger baby brother… G840

It is possible the wire was removed from yours to replace a broken fore-end or worn out draws. Who knows.
I understand the feeling for some (not you but some) about restoring or installing new hardware on some old rifles but i feel that since i cannot prove the wire on mine was remove in service but probably after i feel i'm not doing any more harm.
I think that if i do a nice job it should look authentic enough for me.
I'm more of a collector than a shooter too… so i can see how the wire could be troublesome for some people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tatou

Absolutely :thup: Thank you very much.
The shot of the middle band confirms that the front portion is a continuous wire.
On a side note i notice that your front wrapping goes back all the way over the front volley sight plate, up to the rear sight.
Interestingly it's the first i see done that way. All the others stop just before the dial sight plate.
The rifle i bought also stops just before the dial sight plate. The marks on the wood and the screw holes are clearly visible.
So it would appear that there was at least 2 wrapping methods used. I find this interesting and useful.

---

The muzzle is up on the two band pictures.

Attachment 101718

Here's a picture i found online showing 2 brass screws on the underside.
(If the owner recognize his pic and want's it removed just let me know)

Now i have no idea if the screws are original and the rifle just like the screws appear to have been cleaned but i have seen a few that do look like those screws are brass.
At least on some rifles.

Well, cant improve on gsimmons photos, but here are mine anyways. It's a good excuse to dig around the gunsafe. These early Mk 1***'s appear to be set up in the same way. Did my best to get the diameter of the wire. Its approximately .63" Screws are indeed brass.

Very nice, very early rifle...

Thank you smle addict, those are great too.
Every and any pictures will help, all the different angles gives me a better understanding of how it was wrapped.
But also about the weathering of the wire itself, which will probably be the most challenging.
I doubt the aging will look 100% authentic as only time gives that look but i also dont want a bright shinny wrapping.
I'll experiment on a few ideas i have before installing the wire.
I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Well i found some tacks that looks to be a good enough match for what's on the rifles.
They are blued and even have some rust to them. Should work just fine
I also found the right size wire, .063 with some age to it.
It's good to know hoarders sometime lol
Only drawback is i only have about 23 feet of it and i calculated i would need somewhere around 92 feet lol
The rear portion would need around 19 feet alone so i have enough for that part.

Your thread made me go dig mine out and take another look. Mine is wrapped with copper wire that is soldered at both ends. Over time and usage there is a small amount of space developed on some ends. (see pictures)

An interesting aside, this rifle is one of the most accurate No1 Mk III's that I have, of over a dozen.

Attachment 101846Attachment 101847Attachment 101848Attachment 101849



AZB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArizonaBeagle

An interesting aside, this rifle is one of the most accurate No1 Mk III's that I have, of over a dozen.

---

Yours appears to be an Indian one. I also have one that is wrapped with copper wire… i believe mine was done in Australia.
The wood is Coachwood and many metal parts (trigger guard & nose cap) have Australian markings.
It does not however have any ''official'' Australian issue markings so it's impossible to prove it's provenance.
It's marked EY/2 and contrary to yours it's a terrible shooter and cant even get on target at 100 feet.

Well after 8 months it finally arrived, i was starting to lose hope… i'll now be able to use the help you guys provided :thup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tatou

Thank you smle addict, those are great too.
Every and any pictures will help, all the different angles gives me a better understanding of how it was wrapped.
But also about the weathering of the wire itself, which will probably be the most challenging.
I doubt the aging will look 100% authentic as only time gives that look but i also dont want a bright shinny wrapping.
I'll experiment on a few ideas i have before installing the wire.
I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

---

Search PL notes on wrapping. They were done in a lathe. He also says how much wire etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tatou

Well after 8 months it finally arrived, i was starting to lose hope… i'll now be able to use the help you guys provided :thup:

---

Very nice, rare rifle
Only marked 'BSA' and 'Sparkbrook' for less than a year during the transition period of Sparkbrook changing from being a Government owned factory to BSA owned !

tatou, is there a reason why you want to re-wrap it? If it were mine I'd try and steam the wire marks out of it and keep it wire free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobD

If it were mine I'd try and steam the wire marks out of it and keep it wire free.

---

I've got to say, I might think the same way. It's a nice old example...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bindi2

Search PL notes on wrapping. They were done in a lathe. He also says how much wire etc

---

Thanks, i had read his notes. But this is steel wire and not wrapped exactly he same.
Fortunately the marks left and the info some of the guys provided me will help a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobD

tatou, is there a reason why you want to re-wrap it? If it were mine I'd try and steam the wire marks out of it and keep it wire free.

---

Well there are more than one reasons actually.
My main reason for buying it was the maker… you don't see one of those too often here in Canada.
I've also been wanting a steel wire wrapped for a while and this being a BSA-Sparkbrook plus a genuine grenade launcher plus what i think was a great price all contributed to my decision.
The front handguard was also missing so again i think that also contributed to steer other buyers away…. i already had made an extra one from one of my previous restoration so it was an easy fix for me.

Now to keep it as is or re-wrap it… there is more than wire markings on the wood.
There is what i would call grooves where the wire started and ended, there are screw holes and tack holes… all of which help in keeping the wire in place.
Something i had guess but wasn't certain until i saw it up close… the wood on each side of the middle band was also thinned with what i assume was a rasp.
When looking at original pictures you can see a drop in the wire, so this is original.
I will admit the thought of keeping it as is had crossed my mind but since i have 5 more Mk I's (including another BSA-Sparkbrook) i feel i would prefer to add a steel wire wrap to my collection.
The rifle is also serialized with G prefix indicating it was sent to Ireland in the 1920's to be used as a grenade launching rifle… so in my view it deserves to get back into it's original form.
Lastly … since the wire will not be and never will be original if i ever change my mind down the line, i can remove it if i was to chose to, without destroying any historical value

Well after almost a year from start to finish (8 months of that for the import) it is finally done.
I'm happy with the way it turned out, looks ok.
Thought i would thank ''smle addict'', ''husk'', ''gsimmons'', and all the others for the help with pictures and measurements by posting pictures of some the process and end results.

The rifle was in rough shape. Missing the front handguard and obviously the wire.
One of the filthiest and greasy rifle i've own aside an Indian Ishapore.
It had clearly never been taken apart.
A good cleaning revealed it was in a surprising good condition
Except for a few small pitting below the wood line (not unusual) the metal still has great bluing.
The wood had one small chip on the left side of the trigger guard, which i repaired.
And the butt stock had a nasty crack that i also repaired.
I left all the dings and other wood damages intact ... in fact when i made the new front handguards i distressed it to match the rest of the stock.
One thing that i changed is the butt stock bolt... i switched it with one that had the square tip grounded of, that i had as a spare.
I figured if for any reason i want to remove the butt stock it would help since the rest will be wrapped.
The final touch was with the metal wire that i rusted up a bit so it would not look too much out of place.
Attachment 109453Attachment 109454Attachment 109455Attachment 109456Attachment 109457Attachment 109458Attachment 109459Attachment 109460
Attachment 109463 Attachment 109462
Last one is with some accessories... just to show off ;)
Attachment 109461

Looks pretty good alright...

Well done! Looks great!

Very good job

Yeah, that’s impressive. Well done!

Very impressive work, great job!

All things considered, the re-wrap was probably the wisest option. Fine work on the handguard and the matching dent or gouge as well!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surpmil

All things considered, the re-wrap was probably the wisest option. Fine work on the handguard and the matching dent or gouge as well!

---

Thanks, yes i believe so too. The stock would have required extensive work to hide the holes and rasping marks.
Attachment 109495Attachment 109496