DP28 and PPSH41 Inert instructional cutaways

Afternoon all,

Who likes cutaway instructional pieces?

I do...

A few more came my way the other week, via a large UK RFD.

Bulgarian 1951 dated PPsh41, full matching numbers, fully sectioned from the factory as a Soviet block training aid.

The other is a DP28, an all matching three digit s/n, no date, no manufacturer marking. again manufactured as a training aid and sectioned at the factory.

Neither piece had any pressure baring components reusable and they won't chamber rounds as the chamber had been cut away by 50%.

Very interesting pieces indeed.
Better pics when I get a chance.

A little light restoration is needed on both.Attachment 101919Attachment 101920

Yes, very neat and would be a good piece to fill a collection...specially in the world of dewats.

Cheers Jim, I have to say the DP28 is a very interesting and robust design.

Yep...very solid gun. I had a runner in the small arms school we have here...never did wring it out though.

Very Nice John, I've had a thing for them since I was a kid, although the first I seen was more than a cutaway, it was an L1A1 that was used by the mobile Army recruiting trailers at Game fairs and such.

I cant remember if you pressed a button or pulled the trigger ?? and it started a sequence in slow motion of the moving parts, I've mentioned it before cant remember who replied regarding the finer details, I'll have to dig my Bren cutaway out, not a SKS one but I guess an apprentice one as it has more detail and more meat machined than the SKS.

So are these classed as De-Acts? or are they Sect 1?

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

I cant remember if you pressed a button or pulled the trigger

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We had a .50 that had a motor attached and cycled that way but was unreliable because drill ammo was out of spec...press a button on it.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

I'll have to dig my Bren cutaway out, not a SKS one but I guess an apprentice one

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Yep, this would be the thread to show those off.

As to whether they are deacts, non firearms by default, no firearms by definition really depends on who you ask. The real police say that as they're not lethal - once again, as legally defined, they're not interested, as in the case of the skeletonised No1's and 4's. But the 'experts' in the non real, non home office 'police' force who are, once again, not 'experts' or even qualified to say or call themselves experts by any stretch of the imagination, say that they ARE............ Does that minefield answer the question RoyW?

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Originally Posted by Roy W

So are these classed as De-Acts? or are they Sect 1?

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Hi Roy,

They are classified as inert training non Firearms.

As they are constructed at the factory as sectioned demonstration pieces from specially sectioned components.

I purchased both from one of the largest UK militaria and RFD's.

The London Proof House also confirm this status.

Neither have any reusable pressure baring components and are in essence 'deactivated' by design.

Of course, legal definitions of what is, or isn't a firearm, change from country to country.

From a UK perspective, if anyone is interested in this area of collecting, just make sure in advance that it's fully inert, with no pressure baring parts and most importantly, only buy one from a registered Firearms dealer, who has done all the checks first.

On these examples, the chamber's have been milled away by 50%, so they won't support an inert round, the bolt face has also been sectioned away by 50%, to show the FP channel.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

As to whether they are deacts, non firearms by default, no firearms by definition really depends on who you ask. The real police say that as they're not lethal - once again, as legally defined, they're not interested, as in the case of the skeletonised No1's and 4's. But the 'experts' in the non real, non home office 'police' force who are, once again, not 'experts' or even qualified to say or call themselves experts by any stretch of the imagination, say that they ARE............ Does that minefield answer the question RoyW?

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Afternoon Peter,

I am referring of course to normal sensible authorities approach, not to the bloody Spanish inquisition that you had to deal with!

Here's my No4 SKN, Savage 1942.

I restored this piece as it was in a very poor condition with many parts missing.

This had a few other mods, over and above the SKN spec, the bolt face was cut back at the side and the firing pin hole welded up and made good.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Hi Roy,

They are classified as inert training non Firearms.

As they are constructed at the factory as sectioned demonstration pieces from specially sectioned components.

I purchased both from one of the largest UK militaria and RFD's.

The London Proof House also confirm this status.

Neither have any reusable pressure baring components and are in essence 'deactivated' by design.

Of course, legal definitions of what is, or isn't a firearm, change from country to country.

From a UK perspective, if anyone is interested in this area of collecting, just make sure in advance that it's fully inert, with no pressure baring parts and most importantly, only buy one from a registered Firearms dealer, who has done all the checks first.

On these examples, the chamber's have been milled away by 50%, so they won't support an inert round, the bolt face has also been sectioned away by 50%, to show the FP channel.

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Thanks, I was curious, as Pete says it depends who you ask.

They aren't, of course, lethal barrelled weapons capable of discharging bullet, missile or shot, but as we are all aware, these days, legal definitions seems to be swept away in the hysteria of chasing convictions.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

my No4 SKN, Savage 1942.

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Nice...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Nice...

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Cheers Jim, I would love a cutaway SMLE to go with her.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

would love a cutaway SMLE

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Sorry, fresh out... These guys have them though. Enfield SMLE Cutaway Training Rifle, RARE! for sale

Enfield No.1 MKI Cutaway .303 British caliber rifle for sale.

Enfield Long Lee Cutaway .303 British caliber rifle for sale.

$325, Lee Enfield Skeleton Cutaway Rifle .303 SMLE No1 MkIII | Sports Goods For Sale | Tucson, AZ | Shoppok

Morning Jim,

The top example is absolutely superb!

They are such fascinating pieces, collectors either get it or they don't.

I've used mine in talks in the past to demonstrate the working parts and they certainly help people to clearly understand, especially those of us who are more visual learners.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

The top example is absolutely superb!

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I thought so too, didn't matter who made it. Looks great and would be nice to add it...big money though.

Too rich for me Jim, but that's what I am after...

While we are taking cutaways, here's another example from my collection.

I've had this one for a few years, procured from another RFD.

It's a BSA made L1A1, beautifully sectioned with the skill of a surgeon.

Some very impressive machining work indeed!

The bolt has been cut and the FP hole counter bored and welded up in same way as the Savage No4.

Nice rifle, we had those for teaching recruits and I was one that took to task procuring them for instruction. They ended up being a nice to have and look at but when teaching mechanism we still used a partly stripped rifle and had the troops follow along. They only got a working knowledge of mechanism anyway, ended up with the instructors being the ones that got the clear picture.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Very Nice John, I've had a thing for them since I was a kid, although the first I seen was more than a cutaway, it was an L1A1 that was used by the mobile Army recruiting trailers at Game fairs and such.

I cant remember if you pressed a button or pulled the trigger ?? and it started a sequence in slow motion of the moving parts, I've mentioned it before cant remember who replied regarding the finer details, I'll have to dig my Bren cutaway out, not a SKS one but I guess an apprentice one as it has more detail and more meat machined than the SKS.

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Come on Geoff, the people demand Bren cutaway pics!

Just to add to the UK legal position on instructional cutaways...

I contacted my local Police authority before I bought my first example and as peter said, the Police (or both proof houses) have no issue with them, providing they are totally inert, with no reusable pressure baring parts of any kind.

The other advice I was given (and I would strongly suggest is followed) was only buy one from a RFD, that way due diligence has been taken by all parties.

And finally ...So far at least, here's my VZ58 instructional action, a fascinating and very compact tilting bolt design.

Just like the other two eastern block cutaways, the chamber's been sectioned by 50%, so not designed to chamber an inert round.

The round would simply fall out sideways!

The bolt has been bisected in half to show the firing pin trackway.

Attachment 101988Attachment 101989

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

the chamber's been sectioned by 50%, so not designed to chamber an inert round.

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So...you can't even leave it so it will just hold a cartridge? Just enough material? Don't know here, we have dewats and not dewats. I don't think they have a category for cutaways in FAs. Our new dewats must be welded solid. They might not want to consider a cutaway dewat.

They don't really have a category here Jim..

They are totally inert and not capable of discharging anything, so not of concern or interest to the authorities.

The lack of chambering, was (I would guess) not a requirement of the eastern block instructors.